PMC Speakers Owners & Discussion Thread

[RCADees]

Double post

Edited October 15, 2019 by Andpi
double post

[Cappy_63]

Well my time as a PMC owner has come to an end for now, it was quite the learning experience I must say so I thought it worth while to pass on what I learnt in the hope that it helps someone else maximise there speakers more quickly than I managed to!

 

I came to PMC speakers through owning a Bryston b135 2 amp and reading all the stories of what a great match Bryston and PMC are together.

 

I bought a pair of twenty 22's from Carlton AV at their excellent runout price, living in the Canberra area there was no way to audition but at that price it was worth the risk.

When I got them setup although I loved the definition of the soundstage they had some issues that made it hard to settle with them.

 

The bass seemed undefined and bloated, the sound was thin to my ears (I have seen this mentioned in reviews) and they were brighter than I like.

The bass was the easiest fix, I had to move them further into the room (than I would have preferred) away from the wall and get the toe in just right, as the book says, pointed slightly wide of my shoulders worked best for me.

 

I was using my existing stands and I now believe these were contributing to the thin sound.

I wanted to raise the speakers so that the tweeters were at ear height so did some research and found ISOPAD-PRO8 isolation pads online that would do the trick.

They got the tweeters where I wanted them but the difference that isolating the speakers from the stands made amazed me.

If you have bookshelf speakers and are not using the PMC stands I highly recommend some form of isolation, you don't need to spend much money and it made all the difference, they let the speakers sing and filled out the sound nicely.

 

I was still concerned with the brightness though so thought now it is time to try bi-wiring.

This is where fate kicked in and brought my PMC journey to a possibly premature end.

After a month the cables had not arrived so I enquired and found due to a large influx of orders mine had been overlooked in the rush.

No problem I said, hold the order for now and I would have a go at selling them.

After a month on SN there was no interest so I went ahead with the cable order, and wow, if you have bi-wire speakers then please bi-wire them.

As others on here have found, I can heartily recommend the Osbourn Datalink cables, they smoothed out the sound nicely and I was hearing beautiful music at last.

 

As I so often do with cars and motorcycles, when I get something working really well I somehow end up selling it!

Out of the blue I suddenly got 2 enquiries to my expired ad, one with a fair offer, so they have now moved on to a new home where I hope they give a lot of enjoyment.

 

Yesterday I reinvested some of that money into the STAX setup that was offered by Soul Superfly, he kindly played some tunes for me on his immaculate Quad ESL-57's, what a treat!

 

Last week end I went to Melbourne for the hi-fi show and on Sunday we went to Carlton AV for a further fix!

Paul was very generous with his time with us and I got to hear the Dynaudio Special 40's (which I expected to blow me away) head to head with the PMC Twenty5.22's.

Although my Dyn owning friend preferred the Special 40's I was very impressed with the 5.22's and could be tempted back by them in the future

 

 

Cheers

 

Glenn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[needlerunner]

22 minutes ago, Cappy 63 said:

Well my time as a PMC owner has come to an end for now, it was quite the learning experience I must say so I thought it worth while to pass on what I learnt in the hope that it helps someone else maximise there speakers more quickly than I managed to!

 

I came to PMC speakers through owning a Bryston b135 2 amp and reading all the stories of what a great match Bryston and PMC are together.

 

I bought a pair of twenty 22's from Carlton AV at their excellent runout price, living in the Canberra area there was no way to audition but at that price it was worth the risk.

When I got them setup although I loved the definition of the soundstage they had some issues that made it hard to settle with them.

 

The bass seemed undefined and bloated, the sound was thin to my ears (I have seen this mentioned in reviews) and they were brighter than I like.

The bass was the easiest fix, I had to move them further into the room (than I would have preferred) away from the wall and get the toe in just right, as the book says, pointed slightly wide of my shoulders worked best for me.

 

I was using my existing stands and I now believe these were contributing to the thin sound.

I wanted to raise the speakers so that the tweeters were at ear height so did some research and found ISOPAD-PRO8 isolation pads online that would do the trick.

They got the tweeters where I wanted them but the difference that isolating the speakers from the stands made amazed me.

If you have bookshelf speakers and are not using the PMC stands I highly recommend some form of isolation, you don't need to spend much money and it made all the difference, they let the speakers sing and filled out the sound nicely.

 

I was still concerned with the brightness though so thought now it is time to try bi-wiring.

This is where fate kicked in and brought my PMC journey to a possibly premature end.

After a month the cables had not arrived so I enquired and found due to a large influx of orders mine had been overlooked in the rush.

No problem I said, hold the order for now and I would have a go at selling them.

After a month on SN there was no interest so I went ahead with the cable order, and wow, if you have bi-wire speakers then please bi-wire them.

As others on here have found, I can heartily recommend the Osbourn Datalink cables, they smoothed out the sound nicely and I was hearing beautiful music at last.

 

As I so often do with cars and motorcycles, when I get something working really well I somehow end up selling it!

Out of the blue I suddenly got 2 enquiries to my expired ad, one with a fair offer, so they have now moved on to a new home where I hope they give a lot of enjoyment.

 

Yesterday I reinvested some of that money into the STAX setup that was offered by Soul Superfly, he kindly played some tunes for me on his immaculate Quad ESL-57's, what a treat!

 

Last week end I went to Melbourne for the hi-fi show and on Sunday we went to Carlton AV for a further fix!

Paul was very generous with his time with us and I got to hear the Dynaudio Special 40's (which I expected to blow me away) head to head with the PMC Twenty5.22's.

Although my Dyn owning friend preferred the Special 40's I was very impressed with the 5.22's and could be tempted back by them in the future

 

 

Cheers

 

Glenn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good luck with what ever you go with Glen. I too, recently bi-wired my twenty.23s. I couldn't believe the difference that it made. It wasn't a night and day difference. But they did smooth the thin bass out and give it more punch, and everything else seemed to project better. Like you, I'm not sure if these are my end game speakers. But l do like them, they do seem to work well in my smallish room. Will Probably keep for a couple of years and then re-evaluate. Who knows, maybe the twenty five series, that l have yet to hear. And they do have an agent in Perth. But I'm also thinking  Spendor or Harbeths. Even ATCs, if l can get passed the look.

 

 

[NcA]

I have always had my eye on the PMCs after hearing them in action under the twenty 23 guise.  I recently given the opportunity to home demo the twenty 5.23 and I love the clear mid range and the separation that the speakers shows so clearly, however doesn't carry the same weight that my Dynaudio Focus 160 had in the same room.   

 

Now I am wondering if moving up the line to the 24 will bridge that 'lean' gap or even better do you think the older model 24 will hit the spot. there is a pair of the old model available for sale at a much cheaper price. 

 

Appreciate any thoughts.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by NcA

[NcA]

sorry everyone I thought I had put this under the PMC owners thread and am not sure how to move it now.

[myr]

I find it quite surprising that the Focus 160's had more bottom end than the Twenty5.23's.

 

From what I have read (and heard) the newer Twenty5 series has much improved low end output compared to the older Twenty series due to the advancements with the transmission line technology PMC use, specifically Laminair.

 

I am currently running a pair of Twenty5.24's and never really find them wanting for bass. In conjunction with my Devialet amplification and SAM, they get down very low. 

 

What sort of amplification did you use with the Twenty5.23's when you auditioned them?

[NcA]

I am demoing them at home so using the same gear as for the Dyns.  I use an Audio Research DS450.   The 23 definitely has well defined bass, but just not as much weight if that makes sense.  I suppose the 24 is a much bigger unit than the 23 and thought it would bridge the gap.

[myr]

The DS450 seems like more than enough power for the PMCs.

 

Something else I just realised is that the Twenty5.23's utilise a 5.5" mid/woofer versus the 6.5" found on the Twenty5.24's as well as the Focus 160's. 

 

Strangely enough, the standmount Twenty5.22's also use a 6.5" driver.

 

So I'd definitely say the Twenty5.23 is a little on the smaller side for a floordstanding speaker.

 

This could also account for the reduced bass that you are experiencing in your room. 

 

 

[NcA]

Do you find that your 24 give the same great mid range 

and detail as the 23? Wondering if I should stump up now and not regret it later.......though most online reviews appear to focus on the 23.

[myr]

I haven't heard the Twenty5.23's myself but have heard the 22's and I find the midrange is very similar in character. 

 

The 24's are also a bit easier to drive as they are 89db vs the 86.5db on the 23's. 

 

If you have the budget I'd suggest going for the 24's.

 

 

[NcA]

Got the 24. They certainly address the bass issues! Great speaker

[maximus]

47 minutes ago, NcA said:

Got the 24. They certainly address the bass issues! Great speaker

Congratulations NcA, they're an engaging listen which you're going to enjoy even more once run in. 

[myr]

Awesome! Glad to hear about the happy outcome 

[scobb]

Can anyone suggest some in-ceiling speakers for Dolby atmos duty that would go with a ob1. Cb6. Db1, tle 1 5.1 surround system?  Their wafers are way over budget, I’m thinking $500 to $1500 as it’s really just for atmos.

[audio_file]

I used to have both the PMC Twenty.23 and Dynaudio Contour S1.4 LE at the same time and also demoed the Dynaudio Focus 160 and PMC Twenty.24 on my system.

 

Firstly my 23s didn't have nearly the amount of bass in the beginning as later on, they gain some bass after the run in period, which is worth considering if you can find out how much those 23s have played so far.

 

I have not heard the Twenty5 series, but I have heard the 22, 23, and 24 in the Twenty series and due to similar size and forms I suspect the same sort of differences.

 

To me the SPL and especially the level at which it can play strong bass is higher on both 22 and 24 than on the 23, but the balance between the bass and mid range is different. The 22 sounds leaner and the 23 and 24 much weightier in the bass. This means at low to medium volume you should get the same sort of bass weight from the 23 as from the 24, but it won't be able to match the 24 at high volume.

 

The mid range to treble balance is also different, possibly due to a different crossover, different driver impedance, and/or the smaller driver integrating better with the tweeter because of driver dispersion. The treble sounds more open on the 22 and 24, but more balanced and cohesive on the 23.

 

The Focus 160 didn't have as good mid range as the PMCs in my opinion, but the Contour S1.4 LE did. Both these Dynaudios had bags of bass weight, but were more dependent on the room than the PMCs. In an open space with at least 1m behind them, they would more or less match the PMC floor standers, perhaps slightly stronger for the LE, but when placed say 70cm from a back wall, they thunder and the bass overpowers everything on the Dynaudios. They sound too light with the plugs in the ports, so I'd say they either need semi plugs for the ports, or a large space behind them. The PMCs didn't change nearly as much when moving further or closer to a back wall.

[mpearce38]

Hi Have a pair of PMC 25.23 and looking at my next integrated amp. currently running a Roksan Caspian love the energy and rhythm it brings to the speakers but looking for an extra level of detail thinking either a Naim Supernait 2

Bryston B135

 

anyone have any experience with this amps and the PMCs?

 

 

[blakey72]

Well after two+ years of being without my TB2s+'s they are back. If you didn't here one of my mid/woofers blew, no idea how just stopped working. I ordered a pair of new ones from Interdyne (Australian distributer) last October.

 

 They told me PMC don't sell that particular driver anymore so they would have to make up some new units in UK and ship them over. They are a slightly different design and different material.

 

So installed the new drivers, hooked them up to my Sansui Alpha 907 amp and began playing. I noticed a speaker terminal screw was loose so pulled the cable (positive) out to tighten it. I thought 'I don't need to turn the amp off I'm only pulling one cable out'. Bad mistake!

 

The negative flung out hitting the positive and bang goes the amp. Blue smoke/smell, oh crap. Anyway that's another story. So to replace it in goes the Sansui AU-4900. 37w/ch of Japanese honey. 

 

Soooo the PMC's sounded pretty crap and still sound pretty crap after 10 or so hours. I know they will improve given another 40-50 hours so I'm not worried. I can hear the bass is just too tight and restricted atm. I put Metallica 'one' on and the poor things nearly had a heart attack keeping up with the bass guitar. Sorry guy's, a little too soon. 

 

Anyway here's some pics.

 

 

Old original driver.

 

New drivers.

 

Comparison of the two.

 

Sorry, lots of pics. I like looking at pics. If you don't I apologise. 

 

[Pops110]

Jeez you had some rough luck. Hope things pick up mate.

[Nstat]

Hi All,

 

twenty5.26

recently listened to a pair of twenty5.26‘s and absolutely loved them so much I am going eventually to grab a pair. 

 

can anyone recommend an amplifier preferably integrated?

 

Also interested if there is a similar speaker recomendation so that I can be sure my due diligence has been thorough. 
 

Thanks

[gypr1961]

18 minutes ago, Nstat said:

Hi All,

 

twenty5.26

recently listened to a pair of twenty5.26‘s and absolutely loved them so much I am going eventually to grab a pair. 

 

can anyone recommend an amplifier preferably integrated?

 

Also interested if there is a similar speaker recomendation so that I can be sure my due diligence has been thorough. 
 

Thanks

I think thers another thread along these lines somerwhere.  I heard these last July with a primare  amp, cant remember the model and really enjoyed them, then heard them with some really expensive electrocompanient monoblocks and didnt enjoy them at all

[blakey72]

20 hours ago, Nstat said:

Hi All,

 

twenty5.26

recently listened to a pair of twenty5.26‘s and absolutely loved them so much I am going eventually to grab a pair. 

 

can anyone recommend an amplifier preferably integrated?

 

Also interested if there is a similar speaker recomendation so that I can be sure my due diligence has been thorough. 
 

Thanks

What kind of budget were you thinking? Second hand ok?

[Nstat]

Second hand is fine.

 

5-10k

[blakey72]

I would take your speakers and audition or do in home if you can. These are what I would have a listen to:

 

https://www.theaudiotailor.com.au/collections/integrated-amplifiers/products/plinius-hautonga-integrated-amplifier?variant=45079016967

 

https://www.theaudiotailor.com.au/collections/integrated-amplifiers/products/plinius-hiato-integrated-amplifier?variant=45079030791

 

https://www.theaudiotailor.com.au/collections/perreaux/products/perraux-80i-integrated-amplifier?variant=51113084295

 

Can't find in Brisbane

https://www.classaaudio.com.au/integrated-amplifier/1585-bryston-b135-integrated-amplifier.html

 

https://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/leema-tucana-ii.html

 

Not Integrated but very good I'm told:

 

https://www.theaudiotailor.com.au/collections/perreaux/products/perraux-dp32-preamplifier-dac?variant=51111299975

 

https://www.theaudiotailor.com.au/collections/perreaux/products/perraux-100p-power-amplifier?variant=51113981447

 

A few ideas for a start.

[att23]

Not familiar with what will be available in Brisbane, but I may add the ones below.  I am using Hegel with PMC and sounds great to me.  I have used Rega (lower model) with PMC and also very good.  I have not personally heard Devialet and Vitus with PMC, but many other audiophiles online use these amps too.   I would say at your budget, there is no shortage of excellent integrated amp, it is more up to yourself what 'sound' you like most out of all the choices, not to mention cables to a certain degree may also assist with fine tuning to some aspects. 

 

- Hegel 360, 390, 590

- Rega Osiris

- Devialet Expert 200

- maybe also Vitus RI-100?

[Nstat]

Thanks I really appreciate all of your suggestions.