My Next Horns

[tuyen]

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=4125#4125

b.d: Have a read of the above. Romythecat shares some of his thoughts on the german Odeon horns.. (I do not always agree with Romy btw. I think he is usually a looper).

[Young Skywalker]

Hee hee, it strikes me that you may have indulged in exactly that!

I am the last person that statement would apply to. It's sonic performance first and aesthetics second. But never one without the other.... which may be the root of your consternation.

YS

[b.d]

Hmmm, looks like an attempt at time alignment.....and I dont see the problem with a tweeter at the top apart from a it imaging a bit higher. He just likes the sound of voice IMO.

I dont agree with some of his ideas either, like the necessity of all drivers on the same vertical axis. To me if they are offset horizontally its only going to make the image wider rather that taller - and as for losing time/phase coherancy well you just loose it by moving an inch left in your chair as opposed to up or down (and my height in my chair changes much more over the course of a listening session as I sink into my char than does my lateral position). He goes on ad nauseum about time aligning drivers to the millimeter using plumb lines etc, so according to his views music turns to shite when you lower yourself in your chair by and inch as completely throw out any semblance of phase alignment between mid and supertweeter, which doesnt happen obviously. He must have a vice above his chair that he screws his head into. Perhaps once a few turns to many.

[Keith_W]

I am the last person that statement would apply to. It's sonic performance first and aesthetics second. But never one without the other.... which may be the root of your consternation.

Perhaps he means that by "listening with their eyes" he is referring to people who have formed judgements on the system before actually listening to it.

[tuyen]

Some ALE horns

[tuyen]

Interesting design

[ENIGMA]

Romy makes alot of assumptions from just looking at photographs, his comments would be more valid if he saw/heard the speaker for himself.

Nonetheless, even though he may seem a bit 'loopy' at times, he does make alot of valid remarks regarding many of his observations. You can gain quite a bit of ifo from his posts.

Here is a system he does like, when you read his comments, you can understand the sort of criticism he makes of other designs.

The brand is Cessaro

[b.d]

My horns now making music and they are sounding really good. No horn coloration at all that I can hear. The overall quality of the Radian drivers seems good, smooth and detailed if not quite as incisive as the Gallos I had before, and not quite as pinpoint in their imaging at these relatively close distances, but a much bigger sound stage, like a massive PJ screen after having a TV. Dynamics are effortless at all volumes. Music is harder to ignore. Loads of fun, reminds me of of how I felt when I first got into this hobby, more of a visceral than a cerebral thing.

I'm having as much joy running it without the tweeter and about 7db of boost @20k on the 425 horn...might keep it as a 3-way...?

Tuyen, you got to come over mate! (anyone else welcome for a listen too of course)

[Young Skywalker]

Perhaps he means that by "listening with their eyes" he is referring to people who have formed judgements on the system before actually listening to it.

There is a BIG difference between forming a hypothesis based on established physical principles and being a clueless moron who walks into their local hi-fi mecca and automatically assumes (listens with their eyes) that what they are hearing is the best in the world because a) it costs an obscene amount of money, some wanker with too much money wanted to show off to his equally clueless friends on some hi-fi forum or club, c) JV praised it in TAS, or d) it looks so big and pretty. Which of these two types of prospective customer do you think that the industry is primarily targeting?

No inferences intended to any real person here on SNA before the knives come out by the way, this is merely my observation of the state of the global high end audio industry where mediocre is typically passed off as the second coming.

YS

[tuyen]

My GOTO horn setup currently running too. Mid-low, mid-high and tweeters are 'time-aligned'.

Sounding fantastic! (even with my cheap class T amps). Enjoying very much listening to some of my favourite cds..

Bev, I'll hit you up soon for a listen. Been bit busy as of late! Glad to hear you are enjoying your setup. That's what it's all about at the end of the day.

[Guest]

Looking good there Tuyen ,how did you set up the time alignment

Cheers

[proftournesol]

maybe it's just the photo angle but don't those overlapping horn trumpets adversely affect the sound? I can understand why you want the drivers as close together as possible.

[b.d]

Good mate! Look the business too. I'll invite myself around for a listen sometime

How bout a pic from behind to see how you stacked them driver? I think GOTO packing them in boxes is great idea as balancing round drivers is a *****.

[b.d]

maybe it's just the photo angle but don't those overlapping horn trumpets adversely affect the sound? I can understand why you want the drivers as close together as possible.

Thats what I was wondering with mine (though I've got the LF driver behind the MF an use digital time alignment.) I suspect its not too much of a problem as the front horn does not delay or redirect any of the direct sound, it simply redirects a small fraction of sound back in a very dispersive way, not even back into the rear horn but mainly sideway and backwards. Could be wrong though... but on the plus side you get better integration in the nearfield having drivers closer to one another, which is an issue with both of our nearish field setups.

[jaspert]

Looks good Tuyen and good news of the SQ front.

How far are you sitting from the speakers?

[tuyen]

Basic time alignment was achieved simply by aligning the drivers so that their diaphragms are in line in the Z-axis.

I initially tried setting the drivers up so the horns were not overlapping but found no difference to how they are setup now. The imaging did sharpen up with how they are setup now. Possibly as I only sit 2.5meters away(quite close for a horn setup), the drivers being also aligned in the Y-axis helps.

Classical music sounds so good with these horns!

[b.d]

Funny, I thought that too, about full scale symphonic stuff at least. I would have guessed horns would be most obviously best at percussive stuff, but I was surprised by the scale of the orchestra which struck me as being closer to real life (from a 10th row perspective anyway) than other speaker dish up, and tha effortless sense of the sound swelling so forcefully from ppp to fffff is be pretty amazing.

[tuyen]

The beauty with the radiation pattern of the Le Cléac’h design is that the sweet spot is very wide. Meaning I can lie on my bed, having my head not needing to be in the split centre between the two speakers and yet still get the full feeling of the sound from both sides. Very full and engaging still. Unlike my old Final Electrostats and Magnepans, move my head 1 inch from the centre and sound is all screwed

I still greatly respect esl and planar speakers. no angriness pls

Edited November 15, 2010 by tuyen

[jaspert]

The beauty with the radiation pattern of the Le Cléac’h design is that the sweet spot is very wide. Meaning I can lie on my bed, having my head not needing to be in the split centre between the two speakers and yet still get the full feeling of the sound from both sides. Very full and engaging still. Unlike my old Final Electrostats and Magnepans, move my head 1 inch from the centre and sound is all screwed

I still greatly respect esl and planar speakers. no angriness pls

No angriness here... enough of that around.

Even though i'm not going multi way horns yet i'm getting some of the impression what you guys are describing with my Coral Beta 8/AH204 horns /15 inch bass drivers, that is once i have the right amplifiers and Accuphase crossover in place of the ill suited MiniDSP. The colouration i had is reduced and it sounds much more balanced with a fuller sound, good tone and yes, dynamic !! I've been playing more symphonic music just to experience the huge dynamic swing that's way beyond my ESL 57.

Edited November 16, 2010 by jaspert

[ChonkyCat]

Beautiful stuff Tuyen! How big is ur room btw?

[proftournesol]

Basic time alignment was achieved simply by aligning the drivers so that their diaphragms are in line in the Z-axis.

I initially tried setting the drivers up so the horns were not overlapping but found no difference to how they are setup now. The imaging did sharpen up with how they are setup now. Possibly as I only sit 2.5meters away(quite close for a horn setup), the drivers being also aligned in the Y-axis helps.

Classical music sounds so good with these horns!

It sounds like the advantage of having the drivers physically closer together (in terms of imaging) outweighs any real or theoretical disadvantage of having the horns overlap

[tuyen]

No angriness here... enough of that around.

Even though i'm not going multi way horns yet but i'm getting some of the impression what you guys are describing with my Coral Beta 8/AH204 horns /15 inch bass drivers, that is once i have the right amplifiers and Accuphase crossover in place of the ill suited MiniDSP. The colouration i had is reduced and it sounds much more balanced with a fuller sound, good tone and yes, dynamic !! I've been playing more symphonic music just to experience the huge dynamic swing that's way beyond my ESL 57.

Great stuff Jasper. The yammy 6681 drivers with the 425 horns will give you dynamics in spades!!

15" woofer + yammy midrange horn + nice horn tweeter, all through the accuphase xo would be great combo at a guess. What sort of amplications are you going to be using to power the drivers? low powered SETs?

Beautiful stuff Tuyen! How big is ur room btw?

G'day mate! Hope you are doing well. My room is about 6x4m in total. GOTO drivers seem to still work great even in a smallish area. I kind of assumed they would as from viewing other goto setups online (esp in japan) they manage to squeeze them into their small tight narrow rooms You project coming on soon?

[b.d]

Hi Yasper, are you using the 425 or just the 204? How you finding the top end without a tweeter?

[jaspert]

Great stuff Jasper. The yammy 6681 drivers with the 425 horns will give you dynamics in spades!!

15" woofer + yammy midrange horn + nice horn tweeter, all through the accuphase xo would be great combo at a guess. What sort of amplications are you going to be using to power the drivers? low powered SETs?

Nice to hear about the Yammy and AH425.

I was planning on a pair Fostex T500AMk2 and 2A3 amp for the 3 way but the Coral Beta/AH204 setup has turned out very well with dynamic aplenty, good tone but not quite as refined as the top horn sytem i'd heard.

Owing to the recent progress, i'm no longer in a hurry to rush into the 3 way project and it's largely down to the mighty 2 watts from Yammamoto A-08S and finally getting the Accuphase crossover from the custom after 4 weeks wait.

Just sitting back and enjoy the fruit from the recent effort for a while before considering going 3 way next year.

Edited November 15, 2010 by jaspert

[b.d]

Nice photo. Heres my best effort, and without the room looking like a pigsty for the first time in many months. Yasper youre welcome to borrow my tweeters and 1000hz horn if you want to try a tweeter, I dont think I'm going to be using it in the foreseeable future.

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