Garrard 401 Owners & Discussion Thread

[Full Range]

Very interesting stuff, FR.  Though I'm interested to know why it would do good things for a plinth?

 

Have you come across "Panzerholz"?

 

Andy

Well my thoughts at the time went to stone / slate plinths and thought to give it a go

I must admit I know very little about Panzerholz - but after a bit of reading I will know a whole lot more

[Grumpy]

So @@Grumpy what are your questions mate ? - & thanks for the compliment

Just wanted to know how hard, or easy the routing to countersink the deck was and what tips you could pass on about it please?

[Full Range]

Just wanted to know how hard, or easy the routing to countersink the deck was and what tips you could pass on about it please?

I have cut a few 401 template drop down holes in the plinths in the past with ease

However I had this plinth done by a CNC wood shop - the timber was fairly expensive and I did not want to risk it, plus I had them do some other modifications ( see my note to Andyr below )

@@andyr - Did some reading on Panzerholz, thanks for bringing it to my attention

Regarding resonance of materials - That issue was at the top of my mind and I purposely chose a naturally oily timber for the main plinth material and used different hardwood timber strips inserted at the bolt down section and those timber strips are encased in the centre of the Crows Ash so when the bolt down section is tightened it tightens down on both timbers

Reason being is one density counteracts the other - My mind thinks mechanically and I decided to go with my gut feeling on this

See photos

Edited May 5, 2015 by Full Range

[andyr]

 

@@andyr - Did some reading on Panzerholz, thanks for bringing it to my attention

Regarding resonance of materials - That issue was at the top of my mind and I purposely chose a naturally oily timber for the main plinth material and used different hardwood timber strips inserted at the bolt down section and those timber strips are encased in the centre of the Crows Ash so when the bolt down section is tightened it tightens down on both timbers

Reason being is one density counteracts the other - My mind thinks mechanically and I decided to go with my gut feeling on this

See photos

 

Sound thinking, IMO.

 

But given that 'petrified wood' has no moisture content, I can't quite see the benefit in applying your petrifying liquid to the plinth?

 

Andy

[Full Range]

I have also added some suspension as well @@andyr

If you expand the photo and look close at the stud hole you will see a countersunk surround to accept a little added suspension in the form of a rubber washer or O ring ect

Also added a countersunk surround on the underside as well - the stud holes are larger than the stud so the stud does not touch the timber at all

[andyr]

I have also added some suspension as well @@andyr

If you expand the photo and look close at the stud hole you will see a countersunk surround to accept a little added suspension in the form of a rubber washer or O ring ect

Also added a countersunk surround on the underside as well - the stud holes are larger than the stud so the stud does not touch the timber at all

 

Yes, I see those countersunk holes, FR.  But shirley the plinth is there to absorb/disperse vibrations in the 401 body - so the 401 needs to be in intimate contact with the plinth?  You said earlier that "when the bolt down section is tightened it tightens down on both timbers" ... I assume this means the underside of the 401 is clamped to the timber?  In which case, what difference does it make that "the stud does not touch the timber at all" (using the O-rings)?

 

 

Regards,

 

Andy

[Full Range]

The body does touch the timber at the bolt down point and at the surrounding square countersunk recess as well as the subframe dimples

My thinking is to spread the touch contact over the all the underside dimples on the subframe as opposed to just the main 4 at the bolt down point

The O Ring only comes over the touch point about 0.5mm / 1mm and is easily compressed to allow the 401's body to contact the timber

Again it's me thinking in mechanical engineering terms - Spread the load over as many points as possible

Testing the plinth by taping my fingers and fingernails while a record is playing - No sound is transferred to the stylus

[andyr]

The body does touch the timber at the bolt down point and at the surrounding square countersunk recess as well as the subframe dimples

My thinking is to spread the touch contact over the all the underside dimples on the subframe as opposed to just the main 4 at the bolt down point

The O Ring only comes over the touch point about 0.5mm / 1mm and is easily compressed to allow the 401's body to contact the timber

Again it's me thinking in mechanical engineering terms - Spread the load over as many points as possible

Testing the plinth by tapping my fingers and fingernails while a record is playing - No sound is transferred to the stylus

 

That is excellent, FR - you have achieved your aim.

 

However, I suggest you need to remove the O-rings and try that test again ... I think the same thing will happen (ie. the O-rings don't add any benefit).

 

 

Regards,

 

Andy

[Full Range]

As I promised on an earlier post I have tested several cartridges over a period of time

My cartridges all MM

1) Ortofon OM 10

2) Shure M7 OB

3) Stanton 681 EEE fitted with a Jico Shibata cut stylus ( This cart is classed as Moving Iron )

Also on loan from @@Telecine

1) Ortofon Super OM 30 MM

2) Dynavector Carrot 17D MC

In my setup the Ortofon OM series were a little lite on the treble and bass - lots of midrange though

The Shure M7 OB was a little better but not to my liking

That left my 2 favourite carts that were tested

1) The Dynavector was very precise and reproduced everything in its place & space but weighted lighter on bass compared to the Stanton

2) The Stanton 681 EEE fitted with a Shibata stylus has more meat and punch - not as clinical as the Dynavector but has better bass extension

Both nice in there own way

Will be nice to test a few more in the future

Edited May 7, 2015 by Full Range

[andyr]

As I promised on an earlier post I have tested several cartridges over a period of time

My cartridges all MM

1) Ortofon OM 10

2) Shure M7 OB

3) Stanton 681 EEE fitted with a Jico Shibata cut stylus ( This cart is classed as Moving Iron )

Also on loan from @@Telecine

1) Ortofon Super OM 30 MM

2) Dynavector Carrot 17D MC

In my setup the Ortofon OM series were a little lite on the treble and bass - lots of midrange though

The Shure M7 OB was a little better but not to my liking

That left my 2 favourite carts that were tested

1) The Dynavector was very precise and reproduced everything in its place & space but weighted lighter on bass compared to the Stanton

2) The Stanton 681 EEE fitted with a Shibata stylus has more meat and punch - not as clinical as the Dynavector but has better bass extension

Both nice in there own way

 

One of the beauties of the TransFi arm - having separate little armwands, with carts aligned and balanced in each - makes it quick to swap carts.

 

Andy

[Owen Y]

One of the beauties of the TransFi arm - having separate little armwands, with carts aligned and balanced in each - makes it quick to swap carts.

 

Andy

And with the TransFi digital VTA scale, you can dial up the appropriate VTA/arm height v quickly  

 

Cheers, Owen

Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

[Full Range]

One of the beauties of the TransFi arm - having separate little armwands, with carts aligned and balanced in each - makes it quick to swap carts.

Andy

I think that the next inclusion will be the new Tomahawk with the sliding head option

So one can purchase just one arm and several sliding heads

The carts can be ready to go on a spare sliding head - Will take a little longer to swap and set up but is more economical

And with the TransFi digital VTA scale, you can dial up the appropriate VTA/arm height v quickly

Cheers, Owen

Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

Yep I have the digital VTA gauge - and the simple VTA adjustment " On The Fly " is just so good to fine tune

Edited May 7, 2015 by Full Range

[Owen Y]

I think that the next inclusion will be the new Tomahawk with the sliding head option

So one can purchase just one arm and several sliding heads

The carts can be ready to go on a spare sliding head - Will take a little longer to swap and set up but is more economical

Yep I have the digital VTA gauge - and the simple VTA adjustment " On The Fly " is just so good to fine tune

I would use the detachable cartr plates only if budget is v tight...

- there's a LOTof time involved still in setting up VTF, alignment.

- the fixed head sounds better.

 

Whereas swapping wands is easy, just VTA to adjust.

 

YMMV but VTA on the fly is not the best IMHO, SQ-wise - ie listening with the VTA unlocked, as the manifold/arm is 'loose' - howeverI have triedthis only once.

 

PS. One of the 'improvements' that TransFi recommend, is to dispense with the counterwt black Delrin block & threaded stud - screw the wts directly down onto the bottom locking screw.

Initially, I preferred it with the 'original decoupling', withmy old TT, but on the Salvation TT, Victor's advice is spot on.

 

Cheers, Owen

Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

[andyr]

 

YMMV but VTA on the fly is not the best IMHO, SQ-wise - ie listening with the VTA unlocked, as the manifold/arm is 'loose' - howeverI have tried this only once.

 

Cheers, Owen

Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

 

My G2.2 offered VTA-on-the-fly (hehe, which is why I bought it! ).  But you would never listen to it with the grub-screw unlocked - it was just so easy to use an Allen key to unlock the grub-screw ... move twist the arm up or down, as you wanted to, and then lock the grub-screw again ... and then listen.  And then repeat.

 

But maybe the TransFi is different?

 

 

Andy

[Full Range]

My G2.2 offered VTA-on-the-fly (hehe, which is why I bought it! ).  But you would never listen to it with the grub-screw unlocked - it was just so easy to use an Allen key to unlock the grub-screw ... move twist the arm up or down, as you wanted to, and then lock the grub-screw again ... and then listen.  And then repeat.

 

But maybe the TransFi is different?

 

 

Andy

This is the VTA adjustment on the Terminator 3 it has about 30 mm adjustment

It's firm to turn so it stays in place at whatever height you adjust it to

I would use the detachable cartr plates only if budget is v tight...

- there's a LOTof time involved still in setting up VTF, alignment.

- the fixed head sounds better.

 

Whereas swapping wands is easy, just VTA to adjust.

 

YMMV but VTA on the fly is not the best IMHO, SQ-wise - ie listening with the VTA unlocked, as the manifold/arm is 'loose' - howeverI have triedthis only once.

 

PS. One of the 'improvements' that TransFi recommend, is to dispense with the counterwt black Delrin block & threaded stud - screw the wts directly down onto the bottom locking screw.

Initially, I preferred it with the 'original decoupling', withmy old TT, but on the Salvation TT, Victor's advice is spot on.

 

Cheers, Owen

Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

Yea I also feel that a complete arm is better for quick swap as 90% is already set up

I have seen the weight mod kits at TransFi and am thinking of giving it a go with the weight set I have just to experiment @@Owen Y

[Owen Y]

(Sorry if this is turning into a Terminator thread!)

 

Whilst the counterweight mod is cost-free, probably more significant an improvement is implementing TransFi's little brass weights over the twin inipivots on the arm wand.

This is available in 2 forms...

 

(i) Brass discs as attached to this version of the arm wand...

 

(ii) Or, as knurled brass weights screwed onto the top of the unipivot points...

 

These help to provide the rock-sold bass power & stability, that the Terminator is known for.

 

Cheers, Owen

Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

[Full Range]

Not a problem discussing the Terminator 3 and making it better

@Owen So these weights in the photos are on your set up ?

If so what have been the changes you have observed apart from rock solid bass

I have been saving up for another Tomahawk arm and the weights

And a TransFi Reso mat

[Owen Y]

Hi FR,

The top pic is lifted from the TransFi webpage.

The bottom pic is mine.

 

TransFi swapped the Sliding Head Tomahawk for the Fixed Head (FH) version, which came with the pivot-point weights fitted, as shown) - so actually, 2 changes were made - (i) FH arm wand (ii) pivot-pt weights.

My notes at the time say things like,  "more 'secure' handling of energy, control, more relaxed, neutral tone. More precise stop-start, crisp. Less fullness, resonance. Upper registers, strings, less 'fiery', smooth violin tone."

 

.(The counterweight change shown, without Delrin block, was a later experiment.)

 

Cheers, Owen

Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

Edited May 10, 2015 by Owen Y

[Full Range]

@@Owen Y - I have just placed an order for the brass weight set

When TrasFi replies I will need to state that the only version that will fit my Tom1 style arm is the screw on uni pivot style weights

Will keep you in the loop

[Guest Muon]

Awesome build!

[Owen Y]

@@Owen Y - I have just placed an order for the brass weight set

When TrasFi replies I will need to state that the only version that will fit my Tom1 style arm is the screw on uni pivot style weights

Will keep you in the loop

Yup, keep us posted - pics plse! 

 

Edit: Oops, I see on the Show Us Your TTs thread.

 

Cheers, Owen

Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/

Edited May 18, 2015 by Owen Y

[Full Range]

While I wait for the mailman to arrive with the tonearm weight set from TransFi. I will post some photos just taken recently

[Full Range]

A parcel just arrived sent by TarnsFi Audio from England

The Tomahawk tone arm weight set that @@Owen Y and I have been discussing

A very simple procedure to apply the modification, I spent about 15 min to add some bits and change over others from the old system and testing it now as I post

No stylus was harmed in this procedure as it was removed and placed in a safe place

Some photos

Many different ways one can utilise the new arm weights

One can even use some of the old bits in conjunction with the new

And in my case I have done just that

Edited June 2, 2015 by Full Range

[Full Range]

Now all set up and listening to a couple of albums

It's to early to make a judgement if the sound is any better but the changeover process was a breeze

And yes this is a clear record

[12ax7]

It appears to me that the Terminator doesn't have VTA on the fly because as you change the height of the arm, then the stylus will no longer be tracking at the tangent.

 

I would suggest building a sliding plate for the mounting board with a worm gear which would enable you to adjust for overhang ( should be 0 at tangent )..

This would give you true VTA on the fly.

 

The Eminent Technology ET2 & 2.5 as far as I am aware is the only arm that has true VTA on the fly, as the bearing is guided by an arc block that ensures the stylus remains fixed at the tangent when adjusting the VTA "on the fly".

Edited June 3, 2015 by 12ax7