migasson Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 Hello. I want to know if anyone has used this tonearm. Opinions? Also, used with low compliance carts, such as the Denon 103R or DL-301 MkII... Cheers:)
ArthurDent Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) I've got one. It was one of the first half decent arms I bought. It's a basic lightweight s-shape arm with gimbal bearings. Haven't used it for ages. Both the Denon's will work. Edit: In those days the carts would have been something starting with Shure. Edited June 16, 2015 by KenTripp
migasson Posted June 16, 2015 Author Posted June 16, 2015 Yeah, right. I'm looking at a Jelco 750D primarily, but looking for possible low cost second hand options. Want that Denon cart option as I've got a Denon PRA-1500, which apparently has got a cracking MC phono stage.. By coincidence it has 100 ohm loading ....
ArthurDent Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Yeah, right. If this is your response to someone who's taken the time to respond to your question and trying to be helpful, then who cares what you're looking at. Edited June 16, 2015 by KenTripp
soundfan Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 If this is your response to someone who's taken the time to respond to your question and trying to be helpful, then who cares what you're looking at. Lol. I think Ken that you have taken his reply in the wrong context.
migasson Posted June 16, 2015 Author Posted June 16, 2015 If this is your response to someone who's taken the time to respond to your question and trying to be helpful, then who cares what you're looking at. Whoa! I've been taken out of context. That came out completely the wrong way- sorry. I did not mean any offence, at all - it was REALLY poorly worded. I meant it in a way that I acknowledged your information. Sorry for the misunderstanding, and thank you for your information. I shall take more due care in the future @@KenTripp.
migasson Posted June 16, 2015 Author Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Lol. I think Ken that you have taken his reply in the wrong context. Yeah, was taken in the wrong context, but I did word my response poorly! Edited June 16, 2015 by migasson 1
peterpan Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 I'm looking at a Jelco 750D That is a really good arm for the price, i have used it with an AT mc cart with great results, sold it on and is being used with a Garrot optim mm with good results as well fyi. I will be selling a SME series 3 arm in great condition soon, but that will suit a suit higher compliance carts, altho it did well with the AT oc9 3. the Jelco tho is a good allrounder and you wont be disappointed imho cheers Peter 1
lovetube Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 Hello. I want to know if anyone has used this tonearm. Opinions? Also, used with low compliance carts, such as the Denon 103R or DL-301 MkII... Cheers:) Hi. it is a good tonearm but it is a low mass arm and was design around MM cartridges so it is best suit MM high compliance MM cartridges than it is for MC cartridges. some MC will suit it well but i don't think the 103 will . Duc
migasson Posted June 16, 2015 Author Posted June 16, 2015 Yeah- looks like it's the Jelco route folks! Thanks everyone, tried to save some cash, but looks like I'll focus on my plinth first.... Then save for the arm;) 1
lovetube Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 Yeah- looks like it's the Jelco route folks! Thanks everyone, tried to save some cash, but looks like I'll focus on my plinth first.... Then save for the arm;) good idea and plan Duc
eltech Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Hello. I want to know if anyone has used this tonearm. Opinions? Also, used with low compliance carts, such as the Denon 103R or DL-301 MkII... Cheers:) I own a G840F and only recently took it off my Sondek. Its a very good tonearm. However I disagree with others who say this is suited to high compliance cartridges Its a medium mass tonearm not low mass!. It is definitely more suited to medium to low compliance cartridges, and would definitely suit a Denon MC cartridge. The bearings on it are particularly nice, and cant think of any reason the Jelco would be hugely different apart from relieving your wallet of more money. They are both s shaped tonearms with detachable headshells. Why would the Jelco be any better? I'm not knocking the Jelco, I just cant see why it would be vastly better. If the G840F was made new today in the days of internet, I'm sure it would equally have as many fans as the Jeco does. I think its simply because the Jelco is a new product that it has more people talking about it, but basically its a 1970's style arm. Also the Denon cartridge is good, but there are better moving coils out there for only a few more dollars. If it were me, I'd save money on the tonearm and spend more on a nicer cartridge. The cartridge, and turntable itself makes far more difference than the tonearm. You can put an awesome tonearm on a rumbly turntable and all you hear is rumble. You can put an good-average tonearm on a silent turntable and hear silence between tracks giving depth to the music. You can put a crap cartridge on an excellent turntable and hear crap. In fact recently I have been very surprised after comparing quite a few vintage repuable tonearms and found out that they sound basically the same. The cartridge makes a huge difference, but tonearms only change the sound in a very subtle way (and none of those ways were major or what id consider to be a deal breaker). Expensive modern tonearms like Origin Live I have no doubt are a big step up from vintage tonearms. But after all the fuss about vintage tonearm x y and z, I was expecting to hear major differences and just wasn't hearing what I expected. I think If you really want to get a good arm look at the upper range of Origin Live. I think I'm going to save up for one. Edited June 16, 2015 by eltech 1
migasson Posted June 16, 2015 Author Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) You know what, I thought it was medium to high mass arm. Thanks @@eltech for your response:) it's got me thinking again;) My gut tells me it's gonna work, and I'm kinda stuck on using the Denons... I wouldn't be surprised if Denon tuned their phono stage in my pre with a 103 or 301... Edited June 16, 2015 by migasson 1
eltech Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) @@migasson it definately is a high medium mass tonearm. Its not ultra heavy, but it is a heavier medium tonearm. I have run highish compliance MM cartridges in it, and that can work, however due to the weight of the arm, it definately is suited to lower compliance cartridges. I dare say perfect for a Denon. No worries with your choice of cartridge. Indeed finding a good match between preamp and cartridge is important. I think the other guys were confusing the G840F with the 707 which is a very light tonearm. Edited June 17, 2015 by eltech 2
migasson Posted June 17, 2015 Author Posted June 17, 2015 I've got a handle on one! Will be purchasing today:) 1
migasson Posted June 17, 2015 Author Posted June 17, 2015 Bought!!!! I actually thought if I have the tonearm in hand, it'll be easier when it comes to working out the proportions of the plinth;) 1
eltech Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Probably 220 or 222mm spindle to pivot. Cant remember. check vinyl engine website.
migasson Posted June 17, 2015 Author Posted June 17, 2015 All good, got the specs- @@eltech - the 103R requires tracking force of 2.5 +/- 0.3 and the 301 MKII requires about 1.4g, the Grace has up to 2.0g tracking, so I'm tipping the 301 is the better match for this parameter.. The better pick?
eltech Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 @@migasson I think they will both be appropriate the 1030R is 2g heavier than the 301 mkII. So your counterweight will be in about the same position with both cartridges. Just choose the one you want to try. Though, I'm tempted to say the 103 will be a better choice due to heavier tracking force and lower compliance, and I thought that is why we were discussing heavy arms. The 301 mkII must be reasonably high compliance if it only tracks at 1.4g!
migasson Posted June 17, 2015 Author Posted June 17, 2015 Ok, to clarify, what your saying is the heavier cart compensates for the tracking force? I always thought that if the arm only adjusts to a tracking force of say 2g, and the cart requires more, that is not a good thing!
eltech Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) The G840f can take cartridges from 4-19 grams. So you really ignore the spec that says 2 gram tracking force. Because obviously a 19g cartridge wont be tracking at 0-2 grams. A 4 gram cartridge will probably only balance out to 2 grams but a Denon 103R @ 8.5 grams should be able to have a potential tracking force of up to 4 grams - If I calculated that correctly. A light cart with light tracking force will have the counterweight further back. A heavier cart with heavier tracking force will have the counterweight more forward which is what you want. I just think the 301 will be a little on the light side for ideal performance in that arm, though, don't worry it will work, and achieve the correct tracking force, though the counterweight will be further back. Edited June 17, 2015 by eltech
lovetube Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 @@migasson it definately is a high medium mass tonearm. Its not ultra heavy, but it is a heavier medium tonearm. I have run highish compliance MM cartridges in it, and that can work, however due to the weight of the arm, it definately is suited to lower compliance cartridges. I dare say perfect for a Denon. No worries with your choice of cartridge. Indeed finding a good match between preamp and cartridge is important. I think the other guys were confusing the G840F with the 707 which is a very light tonearm. yes . my bad . this grace arm is indeed medium mass arm . it should work ok with the 103 . 1
migasson Posted June 19, 2015 Author Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Tonearm arrived!!! This is exciting - it's really in great condition. Gave a quick move with the bearings, seems all good:) Cart? Audio-Technica AT-F7. Done the math- It'll work really well:) If anyone has looked at my Denon DP2000 thread, I'm building a turntable - with the cart, I ordered - Vibrapods (cones as well:)) speaker spikes.. On the way, birch ply and a chosen veneer cap - that'll be bought in two weeks:) thanks to @@eltech and @@lovetube for the advice on the arm and plinth building:) Tonearm/cart/isolation stuff supplied by Brian@Decibel Hifi, a gentleman to deal with! I won't add anything else in this thread.. I'll be starting a new thread with the construction of the turntable..... Edited June 19, 2015 by migasson 1
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