Aslan Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 (edited) Just had a quick peek at those Alain Benard drivers...............on paper (T/S Specs) they look very promising indeed. I cant find any Frequency Response plots though, and cant find a manufacturers website either. Edited October 3, 2008 by Aslan
2sheds Posted October 3, 2008 Posted October 3, 2008 PHY-HP from France PHY-HP KM30 SAG (Silver Wired Full Range driver - ideal for Open baffle).. CHARACTERISTICS ø voice coil = 35 mm h = 8 mm 2 layer silk silver M = 9,7 gr dB = 97 G = 1,4T alnico Alcomax 3SC Admissible power = 30 W rms fs = 32 Hz re = 13,8 Ohm Qes = 0,62 Qms = 6,60 Qts = 0,59 Vas = 224 litre Z = 16 Ohm Zmin = 14,9 Ohm Zmax = 125 Ohm D = 234 mm Ms = 23, 2 gr Le = 1, 2 mH cheers 2sheds
56oval Posted October 3, 2008 Posted October 3, 2008 Just had a quick peek at those Alain Benard drivers...............on paper (T/S Specs) they look very promising indeed. I cant find any Frequency Response plots though, and cant find a manufacturers website either. Hello Andrew Alian was the man behind the Raven R1,2 & 3 tweeters ,his company is BEEngineering & ATD in Germany . In Oz Pat @ War Audio has these drivers . Cheers
56oval Posted October 3, 2008 Posted October 3, 2008 PHY-HP from France PHY-HP KM30 SAG (Silver Wired Full Range driver - ideal for Open baffle).. CHARACTERISTICS ø voice coil = 35 mm h = 8 mm 2 layer silk silver M = 9,7 gr dB = 97 G = 1,4T alnico Alcomax 3SC Admissible power = 30 W rms fs = 32 Hz re = 13,8 Ohm Qes = 0,62 Qms = 6,60 Qts = 0,59 Vas = 224 litre Z = 16 Ohm Zmin = 14,9 Ohm Zmax = 125 Ohm D = 234 mm Ms = 23, 2 gr Le = 1, 2 mH cheers 2sheds Hello mr sheds The cone material & surround looks very close to whats used by PHL would be interesting to find out . Cheers
mondie Posted October 3, 2008 Posted October 3, 2008 Maybe I should weadle my way to Mondies new place for a listen to his new TADS You would be welcome Nude, its worth listening to a TAD based system before you start spending some serious $$. The coherency of the 4001 driver is hard to beat, its what is close enough to a horn loaded point source and is really quite magnificent. But l am biased. Cheers, mondie
Aslan Posted October 3, 2008 Posted October 3, 2008 I reckon Nude needs to find an excuse to visit you too mondie. The TADS would be a great point of reference. And, of course, there's now the opportunity to bring back a car load of the Clare Valley's finest as well.
2sheds Posted October 3, 2008 Posted October 3, 2008 (edited) Hello mr sheds The cone material & surround looks very close to whats used by PHL would be interesting to find out . Cheers Oval, The PHY KM 30 SAG drivers are: Time aligned coaxial driver ( the 2 emissive centers are at the same place ) and that is not disturbed by recovering frequencies and a filter right on the most sensible zone for the human ear 30 cm ( 12" ) high efficiency wide range unit non filtered : 97 db Paper cone Basket and ring made from bronze SN12 without lead, pole pieces made of very mild steel < 0,20% carbon in pot shape Central alnico 3SC ( = no magnetic looses ) Piezo-electric tweeter featuring high impedance, into a bronze pot SN12 , sharply filtered at 11 kHz and climbing over 30 kHz Each driver is put under a very serious pre-running and then measured in order to match pairs with max tolerance delta as 0,2gr. on mobile equipment mass, 0.1 Ohms on d.c. resistance, 2Hz on resonance frequency, is numbered and life guaranty ( first owner ) Voice coil made of silver wire insulated with 15 micrometer silk. This avoids nearly totaly the production of MDI ( Micro Discharges of Interface ) and other perturbations (sic) Each one, from what I recall, is hand made in the French countryside. I also recall Mr Salabert (PHY HP owner) was the designer at Supravox. These drivers are used in Ocellia, Tonian Labs and Auditorium 23 speakers. There is an article on the Auditorium 23 speakers (using a smaller PHY driver) at 6moons. I read of one user who supplements the PHY KM 30 with 2 x JBL 15" drivers and a Heil air motion transformer for each speaker, crossing over to the JBL at 150hz and the Heil at 3.5kHz. No longer a single driver speaker, but perhaps getting the best of all worlds... The PHY KM 30's are on my shopping list... :mad: cheers 2sheds Edited October 3, 2008 by 2sheds Add
wixy Posted October 3, 2008 Posted October 3, 2008 The PHY's certainly sound and look interesting! Anyone know how much they sell for?
kye Posted October 3, 2008 Posted October 3, 2008 there is pricing on the PHY website - http://www.phy-hp.com/English/Prices.html
wixy Posted October 3, 2008 Posted October 3, 2008 there is pricing on the PHY website - http://www.phy-hp.com/English/Prices.html Thanks for that!
consonancemad Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 this would be my suggestion for the ultimate setup townsend or murata supertweet ,rear firing manger transducer mid/high lamda td 15 apollo bass the lamda td 15 would be run active off hypex ucd 700hg the manger and supertweet would run off a single ended class a amp around 50 watts using a passive crossover and mundorf gold/oil caps
Guest cdwitmer Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 Though I havent heard them, from what I've been lead to believe Feastrex should be on your list, possibly near the top. If money no problem the field coils should be the best full ranger out there by a long way if price is ever an indication (which it isnt) Anyone with interest in Feastrex will want to keep an eye out for reports from RMAF in Denver, which starts in less than a week. Also, the Feastrex website is due for an overhaul by about the time RMAF starts.
b.d Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 ...and an eye on Nelson Pass's Feastrex project (and Dick Olsher's)
joz Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 I'll be keeping a keen eye on your progress Nuddy to see where this project takes you. Very interested in it all..
56oval Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 Anyone with interest in Feastrex will want to keep an eye out for reports from RMAF in Denver, which starts in less than a week. Also, the Feastrex website is due for an overhaul by about the time RMAF starts. Hello & welcome cdwitmer . I have been reading your thread on diyaudio about the Feastrex are you a distributor for feastrex . Cheers
A9X Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 Okay I know that this may be the wrong way to go about it, but bear with me anyway Let’s say I want to build a pair of High Efficiency Full Range Speakers that are able to be driven well by 50 Watt SETs (CAD 805 AE) preferably one pair, but two if necessary My way of approaching this is to consider the drivers first and foremost, cabinets and XOs can be designed and constructed accordingly Feel free to suggest otherwise You can't really decide on drivers without an idea of what size, shape and alignment of the cabinet is to be used, as well as considering the sort of xover. You'll also need some way to measure it when done. How big can it be? What sort of sensitivity are you aiming for? What sort of LF -3dB are you looking for? What sort of ultimate SPL are you expecting? How much money are you willing to spend on drivers? Please suggest appropriate drivers for the following Super HF HF Mids Bass I'll give you a list after you provide some more info, requested above.Cheers
Guest cdwitmer Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 Hello & welcome cdwitmer .I have been reading your thread on diyaudio about the Feastrex are you a distributor for feastrex . Cheers I'm a raving fan, but that's all. I live in Japan where Feastrex distributes their own products. Also I'm not really in a good position to distribute audio products in any case. -- Chris
56oval Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 I'm a raving fan, but that's all. I live in Japan where Feastrex distributes their own products. Also I'm not really in a good position to distribute audio products in any case.-- Chris Hello Chris Could you post some pic's of feastrex's speakers in japan . Cheers
Nude Posted October 5, 2008 Author Posted October 5, 2008 You can't really decide on drivers without an idea of what size, shape and alignment of the cabinet is to be used, as well as considering the sort of xover. You'll also need some way to measure it when done. How big can it be? What sort of sensitivity are you aiming for? What sort of LF -3dB are you looking for? What sort of ultimate SPL are you expecting? How much money are you willing to spend on drivers? I'll give you a list after you provide some more info, requested above. Cheers Hi A9X Big as I want Over 95db LF isn't that important I usually listen between 90 and 105 I'll know when I see what's available Cheers
56oval Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 Hello nude http://www.azurahorn.com/azurahorn_gallery.html Cheers
hybridfiat Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 Hoo Boy! that horn speaker would want to sound like all of heaven's angels cos it is as ugly as a hatfull of a&$eholes!
A9X Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 (edited) Hi A9XBig as I want Over 95db LF isn't that important I usually listen between 90 and 105 I'll know when I see what's available Cheers Starting at the low end, I'd go with an AE TD15X*, sealed in 80L. This gives 60Hz at Qt of 0.7 and has sufficient capacity for a Linkwitz transform to get it lower with a reduced SPL capability. One is 94.6 dB/W, two in parallel gets 97.5dB/W. It has an excellent motor design and is beautifully made. When I was looking at drivers for my own design, I looked at every high efficiency driver I could get (meaning I could actually purchase) and this was the best in my opinion and I spoke with my wallet. The Apollo motor upgrade improves them further apparently for another $US100/driver. Other notable options are the JBL 2225* and 2226, 18Sound 15ND930 and 15NMB420, Altec/GPA 515, B&C 15NW76 and numerous BMS, Beyma, Faital Pro, PHL, Precision Devices, RCF and TAD drivers. The tannoy Reds and Golds are excellent as is the Altec/GPA 604 For midranges, depending upon how low and high you want to cross them, and peak SPL use, there are also a few options. JBL 2123* and 2012 PHL 6, 8 and 10" drivers 18Sound 6ND410, 8NMB420, 10NDA520, 10NDA610 and 10MNB420 AE TD-10M* and the forthcoming 6.5" driver Audax PR170 Jantzen JA8008 For HF, I like compression drivers. The best when used well are spectacular. Personal faves are the B&C DE250* and Beyma CP 380M*. The CP385 is I believe used in the Audiokenesis speakers and is a neo variant of the 380. When tweaked and used correctly the BMS coaxes are excellent, ay least the 2": I haven't tried the 1.4. The BMS 1 and 2" drivers are considered excellent as well. The Faital Pro HF101 looks interesting. The Radian drivers or JBLs with Radian Al diaphragms are also well regarded. The Altec/GPA 902 is good too. And of course the TAD 2001 and the Yamaha 6618. I don't like titanium diapragms at all, so I don't use them. Non compression driver HE HF drivers worth looking at are the Beyma TPL-150, the Fountek NeoPro 5i, the Stage Accompany planars and the RAALs. Waveguides are a whole 'nother kettle of fish. After the appalling ones I was delivered, the best off the shelf options are the 18Sound XT120 and 1086 (plus a couple of new ones not released yet) and the DDS ENG 1-90 Pro and the JBL Econowaveguides which look excellent in the measurements I've seen. I'm getting four of them. Otherwise, make friends with someone with a lathe. Late note: AE Speakers are developing spun aluminim 12 and 15" WGs. For high efficiency, domes are limited as only one or two have 93dB/W sensitivity though there are a couple of waveguide designs that bump that up a bit. Syill limited in terms of peak SPL in almost every case because of Xmax limitations. Having been down the horn path, there are too many difficulties in designing good flares under 500Hz or so and then they get too big to integrate well because of C-C issues. I like the Azuras but even the smallest is too big for my uses. I've rambled a bit but I'm celebrating Manly's win. If I think up others, I'll add them later. If you have specific questions on some aspect of HE design, ask and I'll post some links as this has been an area of interest of mine since 2000 or so. Everything with a * I own so I'm biassed. Edited October 5, 2008 by A9X
56oval Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 Hello Nude Some light reading http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100392 use the best of all worlds . Cheers
A9X Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 Hello NudeSome light reading http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100392 use the best of all worlds . Cheers Many, many pearls in that thread, but you're going to spend a lot of time looking for them.I'm still sceptical about it coming off. Some of the Geddes threads are the same, but the Setting Up The Nathan 10 has some great bits too especially on dispersion control in the vertical plane. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&threadid=130494
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