Avantgarde Duo Omegas in The Shed

[Tony M]

Gat, it sure is.  It was doing sterling duty driving a pair of Minimus 7's on Mrs M's computer desk when I swapped it out for a mint Onkyo A7055 for some reason I don't recall now.  There might have been a few crackles in the volume control or something like that.  I think I intended to take it over to the shed and try some of the magic squirty stuff on the volume pot, but haven't gotten around to it yet.  Well, it's only been a few years!

 

It seems happy enough hanging around and looking decorative. 

[Nada]

  On 14/08/2016 at 1:10 AM, Tony M said:

...., I need to find a more aesthetically acceptable solution that achieves the same thing.  Any ideas are very welcome.  Sticking something on the front of the DAC aint gonna happen, so I need some sort of self-supporting magnifier that easily flips out of the way. 

 

Can you afford $1.28?

Specifications:

Model: A5

Material: PVC

Magnification: 3X

Color: transparent

Thickness: 0.5mm

Dimension: 18 x 12 cm

Net weight: 20g

Package Contents:

1 x PVC magnifier sheet

 

[gat474]

  On 14/08/2016 at 5:18 AM, Tony M said:

Gat, it sure is.  It was doing sterling duty driving a pair of Minimus 7's on Mrs M's computer desk when I swapped it out for a mint Onkyo A7055 for some reason I don't recall now.  There might have been a few crackles in the volume control or something like that.  I think I intended to take it over to the shed and try some of the magic squirty stuff on the volume pot, but haven't gotten around to it yet.  Well, it's only been a few years!

 

It seems happy enough hanging around and looking decorative. 

 

 

I bought one of these about 15 years ago at a garage sale for $5.  It only worked on one channel for a long time but our own Skippy diagnosed the problem as the pre out/main in jacks.  These jacks are configured so that when not in use they default to a connection between them so you don't need a jumper or a cable.  Sometimes the little connection inside one of the jacks gets a little testy and won't connect.  The easy fix is just to use a pair of interconnects between the pre in and main out.

 

Sadly my little 1070 only comes out to test speakers and the like in the garage.  I've done all sorts of nasty things to it including shorting out the speaker terminals with no ill effects.   

[Tony M]

Ha! I didn't know that and always used a short interconnect between them. Sounds like the most reliable option anyway.  I must try it out again so it still feels loved.

[Ooogh]

Alright, in my mind ,unbelievable efficiency demands SETs and bingo, Nirvana.

 

I have previously rolled over my super tuned up Cary 805 Anniversary amplifiers  to Tonys place just to have them royally spanked by his Passlabs XA 30.5.

 

My Audion PSE Silver Night monoblocks were closer but needed trial and research to get them valved up ready to do battle. In the interim  Tony moved to his new AVR pre/Dac, what a great move, any (tiny) shortcomings were erased in his set-up.

 

Having settled on the following valve set up as the combination to do battle I arrived full of confidence. NOS Tungsol 5678s, NOS Phillips MiniWatt E88cc and PsVane Tii Grey Bottle 300Bs. Highly regarded Siemens and Amperex valves were left behind in finding the perfect voice.

 

We experimented with a few things , running the bass bins from the pre-amp and some valve swaps, but in the end this set up, running the lot and high level input to the woofers we had an extended listen. It sounded really great once it all got up to full operating temperature.

 

Not bad at all I thought , lets slip the Passlabs back in and give it a crank.

 

Bloody hell. Not the kind of spanking the Carys got but it was my beautiful Audions, the love of my life, my joie de vivre, was not the victor. In their defence they lacked the fully balanced set up of the Passlabs but that is not the difference. The Passlabs has a grip, power, control, finesse that is quite jaw dropping with the Avant Gardes.  What an amp. What a sound, huge, tight ,dynamic, punchy and heavy.

 

Does anyone in SA have a big Sugden or one of the higher powered First Watt amplifiers? They might be just the flavour these speakers enjoy.  I would still love to hear a 2a3 or 45 based amp on these speakers but even with this level of efficiency they seem to like some Watts. Maybe the purist form of SET will prove to be what they require to show what is possible on that road.

 

Once again, what I think I know has been cast into shadow, all the theory has not proven true in practice. The only thing this hobby has taught me is you have to plug them together to know how they will sound.

 

Another great afternoon and learning experience. We South Australian are so lucky to have such an active and vibrant group of enthusiasts, such good fun. Cheers as always Tony.

 

 

[Keith_W]

Time to sell those Cary 805's of yours then Hugh! Hmmm, I think I might know someone who is interested

[Luc]

Would love to hear them with a big Sugden combo running them as I've heard them and also heard Tony's speakers when they were newly arrived at his place(Modwright driving them Tony? Can't remember)

Also have a friend with a slightly different Horn setup and it is driven by an amp I'm not really allowed to mention but it's a ginormous integrated and he's extremely happy with the combination and it's endgame at the moment...for him.

 

Also wonder how Zingaling aling aling's set up would sound in Tony's shed. @Sir Sanders Zingmore

[rantan]

  On 15/01/2017 at 6:49 AM, Luc said:

 driven by an amp I'm not really allowed to mention but it's a ginormous integrated

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I thought the ME integrated was quite compact

[Ooogh]

@Keith_W the big Carys have moved on to greener pastures already I am sorry to say.  

 

@Luc I think I may be able to guess the humongous amp of which you speak. Does it sport a very similar valve lay-out in the power section as the AE model of the 805? (6Sn7, 300B ,845?) Or am I way off course?

 

I think a meeting between SSZ and Tony would be great, what a conversation that would be!  That shed of Tonys, to me ,just seems to have no discernible  impact on the sound, it really seems not to exist. No doubt it is having all types of effect but they do not manifest themselves in any negative  way that I am able to quantify.

 

Has anyone listened to the big AG's in both a large and more moderate listening space? What a fascinating comparison that would be, just how much room does such a big horn need?

 

The only problem with hearing such fine equipment is you start wondering just how much you could get for a kidney...

[Luc]

  On 15/01/2017 at 7:08 AM, rantan said:

 

I thought the ME integrated was quite compact

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Haha. no it's not one of them.

 

@Hugh Barnes

 

Hugh it's got no valves. It's a rather large integrated (I think, unless I've got it wrong and it's a power amp with the pre hidden away somewhere. The pics indicate a ship anchor).

Type: stereo balanced integrated power amplifier
Inputs: 1 x line (RCA) | 1 x balanced (XLR)
Outputs: 1 x balanced (XLR)
Internal cabling: Andromeda
Output power (switchable): 50 wpc class A | 100 wpc class AB
Frequency response: DC-800 kHz
Noise: <110 dB
THD + N : <0,01%
Input sensitivity: 1,3 V RMS
Input impedance: XLR=600 ?, RCA=10 k?
Power consumption: standby = 2 W, AB class = 50 W, A class = 500 W
Dimensions: (H x W x D): 310 x 435 x 610 mm
Weight: 85 kg

 

 

It's something along these lines.

 

Hugh,your so right about Tony's shed. It's just a fantastic space,a big space. He can die a happy man with many decades(your growing backwards towards youth aren't you Tony?) of listening in that marvellous space behind him and at this point in time in front of him.

 

Hugh, when you take into consideration the size of the 'Shed', Tony's horns are baby fodder, you could but some truly humongous Horns in there to good effect and if I have my grammar right the affect would be sublime.

 

Kidney? I've wondered about life in a wheel chair due to having sold my legs off to science.

Could be worht it in the long run as we sit to listen not stand...

[Tony M]

Hugh's being unfair to the Audions - first he handicapped them most of the afternoon with inferior valves that could sound a bit "shouty".  Then, when they had the "proper" valves installed and were getting nicely warmed up and ready to strut their stuff, we swapped back to the Passlabs and played a couple of tracks that absolutely played to its strengths, not that it or I minded that.

 

Yeah, it's a nice amp and I'm very content, but nothing "killed" anything on the day and it would take me a lot more listening to scratch the surface of the Audions' capabilities.  So, Hugh, be nice to those lovely amps! 

 

@Luc The amp i was using when you were here was the little Ming Da MC34-AB, with the Modwright LS100 pre amd NAD M51 DAC.  Lots of different flavours in that mix that sometimes gelled and sometimes not so much.  The current sound is undoubtedly cleaner and more neutral without being cold or clinical.  It's more balanced and evenhanded with a wider variety of material and suits me just fine.

 

I think Hugh would like to inject just the right amount of extra midrange bloom and romance and that is a tantalizing prospect which I reckon I'd really like, but not one I'm hanging out for or even actively chasing, at least at present*.  In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the Audions couldn't deliver just that given more opportunity to show their stuff.

 

Things I'm reasonably sure about are that the speakers are the right ones for me in that room, the Passlabs and the AMR DAC have a pleasing synergy with the speakers and that I don't need a preamp in the system. 

 

So, although I'm pretty happy with things as they are, It's also great fun to play around with different options, especially when someone like Hugh is willing to cart big, awkward and potentially fragile valve amps and a smorgasbord of valves across the Hills to help me fine tune the system and I always appreciate having mates around to share the music and a few reds.

 

I just can't let Hugh get away with saying the Passlabs "beat" the Audions - it's never as simple as that. 

 

(* This bit worries me - maybe I'm not a real audiophile!  Or maybe I'm faking nonchalance and I am really hanging out for some valve goodness - not really sure myself to be truthful.)

Edited January 15, 2017 by Tony M

[sir sanders zingmore]

  On 15/01/2017 at 6:49 AM, Luc said:

Would love to hear them with a big Sugden combo running them as I've heard them and also heard Tony's speakers when they were newly arrived at his place(Modwright driving them Tony? Can't remember)

Also have a friend with a slightly different Horn setup and it is driven by an amp I'm not really allowed to mention but it's a ginormous integrated and he's extremely happy with the combination and it's endgame at the moment...for him.

 

Also wonder how Zingaling aling aling's set up would sound in Tony's shed. @Sir Sanders Zingmore

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I'm pretty happy about how my Line Magnetic drives my Avantgardes.

Mind you I did hear then recently with a Class A Vitus and it was scarily good !!

[Luc]

@Sir Sanders Zingmore @Tony M @Hugh Barnes  I've remembered which amp it was I was talking about and while I can't mention names or owner I can mention that it's driven by a Esotoric pre and that it's bigger than the specs I posted above.

Frequency Response: 0Hz–801kHz –3dB

Output Power: 50-watts per channel (Class-A) into 8?
                            150-watts per channel (Class-AB) into 8?

Dimensions (HWD): 310×435×610mm

Weight: 90kg

 

No tubes in there.

But I'd like, no...love, to hear the amps Hugh is talking about driving the Avantes.

 

Zingaling will know what I'm talking about and Tony, I'm guessing that you are going to come to Marc's show in July. If you are, then I'll be in contact.

[rantan]

  On 15/01/2017 at 10:17 AM, Luc said:

 

 

Zingaling will know what I'm talking about and Tony, I'm guessing that you are going to come to Marc's show in July. If you are, then I'll be in contact.

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If he goes in July it won't be much of a show. It's scheduled for November IIRC

[Tony M]

Thanks rantan - I need all the help I can get with these things.  Luc trying to trick me with the wrong dates is potentially embarrassing, maybe even disastrous.

 

I once turned up for a one-day work meeting in Sydney a week early.  And I rolled up at Perth Airport a couple of years ago and couldn't understand why they didn't have a booking for my flight home.  They eventually found it (while the line behind me stretched half way across the terminal)  Only problem was it was for the same date in the next month!  They had one seat left on the plane and I almost had to take out a second mortgage to score it.  No free upgrades were on offer.  It would've been cheaper to stay in Perth for the next month.

 

I have history and it could even get worse in future!

[Tony M]

  On 15/01/2017 at 10:08 AM, Sir Sanders Zingmore said:

Mind you I did hear then recently with a Class A Vitus and it was scarily good !!

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I really don't want to know that, Trevor.

[sir sanders zingmore]

  On 15/01/2017 at 11:02 AM, Tony M said:

 

I really don't want to know that, Trevor.

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nor do I 

 

best if we both just forget about it

[Ooogh]

Googling Class A Vitus.........

[rantan]

 

@Sir Sanders Zingmore @Tony M @Hugh Barnes

 

[Luc]

  On 15/01/2017 at 10:17 AM, Luc said:

Frequency Response: 0Hz–801kHz –3dB

Output Power: 50-watts per channel (Class-A) into 8?
                            150-watts per channel (Class-AB) into 8?

Dimensions (HWD): 310×435×610mm

Weight: 90kg

Expand  

Did someone mention Vitus, a big one at that?

 

 

*Nov(Facepalm!) of course.

 

Nevermind. I'm going to Bleak City before that date and winter is always a good time. Tony, you'll just have to make time and come over, bring Ant with you, the car needs it's webs blown out anyway and he's got points to lose and you probably haven't...

Would make for a fantastic few days.

[Ooogh]

Googling "bank robbery, how to get away with it"..........

[sir sanders zingmore]

  On 15/01/2017 at 11:14 AM, rantan said:

 

@Sir Sanders Zingmore @Tony M @Hugh Barnes

 

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Yes indeed. Someone should buy that. 

[Guest]

  On 15/01/2017 at 11:17 AM, Luc said:

Did someone mention Vitus, a big one at that?

 

 

*Nov(Facepalm!) of course.

 

Nevermind. I'm going to Bleak City before that date and winter is always a good time. Tony, you'll just have to make time and come over, bring Ant with you, the car needs it's webs blown out anyway and he's got points to lose and you probably haven't...

Would make for a fantastic few days.

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I'm in, though if memory serves Tony is more a flier than driver for whirlwind interstate trips...

 

As far as points go, well I think "teetering" is a good way to put my situation!

Edited January 15, 2017 by Grizzly

[Tony M]

Well, time doesn't stand still and it's a while since I updated this thread.  There have indeed been a few subtle changes and I really need to thank a couple of people in particular who have contributed to my current state of contentment.

 

Sheds being sheds, there are always structural challenges.  In my case it involved cracks forming between the gyprock panels that constitute the ceiling.  Metal expands and contracts more than gyprock likes to do  - so the only viable solution was to install battens to cover the cracks which kept coming back as soon as I patched them.  And I got the bright idea that, as long as I was mucking around with the ceiling, why not add a projector and screen?  Vision Living in Adelaide were happy to quote and were great to work with but still needed me to do lots of the carpentry work, in particular installing something solid for them to attach the screen to.  Easy, I thought!  Wrong again - it took a lot of time and effort for this geriatric couple (Mrs M helped a lot with the installation) to get a simple board that was sturdy enough to hold the screen securely attached to the ceiling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But the biggest advances are in terms of refining the audio.  Since I've had the Avantgardes, I've loved most aspects of the sound.  But I've had ongoing reservations about a tendancy for the upper midrange and treble to sound a bit hard and bordering on etched and thin on some recordings.  The first thing that really helped with this was the addition of the demo-model AMR dac/pre that Cameron sold me a few years ago.  Well, a few months ago, the AMR developed a bit of distortion in the left channel.  When I contacted Dr Cameron and described my symptoms, he responded instantly by sending me a package of valves, another processor board and a dac chip.  Plus, he was constantly and patiently available by phone to advise on the subtleties of installation and the order in which to apply the "fixes".  Outstanding after sales service for a unit out of warranty? - absolutely!  Anyway, the final fix involved a new processor board that he supplied at what must have been close to his cost and well below retail and I really think that improved the sound significantly , quite apart from rectifying the distortion.  Overall, big thumbs up to Cameron and Maxmedia!

 

 

Another recent huge step forward has been buying a pair of lovely parallel single ended Audion 300b valve amps from @khoihuyen  @Ooogh told me I HAD to buy them and Hugh is always right!  Khoi is a great bloke to deal with and the amps are gorgeous.  They afforded the AG's an ease, warmth and listenability that no other amps before, including several highly-rated valve amps, had been able to provide. 

 

There have been many other tweaks, including reinstalling the silver cables between the AG drive units that George initially included with the speakers.  I convinced myself I preferred the AG originals, but this was due to the "softening" (reducing resolution?) effect that they had on the sound that is no longer needed.  

 

A bit more toe out, raising the crossover point between the subs and the midrange horns and moving the speakers a bit closer to the back wall have all helped make the sound more natural and relaxed and immensely improved the listening experience  IMHO. 

 

 

 

As well as all that, several of the Adelaide Hills locals invested in music servers by Innuos, again supplied by the redoubtable Cameron of Maxmedia.  I think we are all suitable impressed by these excellent units.  I really don't think I have begun to explore the capabilities of my Zenith and I will need to report further when I've had a chance to re-rip my CD's.  Suffice to say for the present that it seems to work without a glitch, particularly as a ROON core, the set-up is incredibly easy and intuitive, the computer interface is just great and the relatively few CD's I've ripped so far sound absolutely superb.

 

There will be more to report on this - I'm ashamed of being lazy, but I prefer to consider it as "time-poor".

 

 

So, that's sort of it, really.  I'm feeling very content with the current set-up and I get over to the shed every chance I get.  Once installed there and browsing streamed music on Roon, video on Youtube or Blu-ray depending on mood, I find it incredibly hard to turn things off and come back inside.   "Just one more track" after "just one more track" is an amazingly powerful rationalisation and can be repeated ad infinitum.  Moreover, the enjoyment of listening/watching easily exceeds the fun of tweaking so it's easy to forget that I'm supposed to be an audiophile.  

 

Isn't it OK to just say "it sounds pretty good" and leave it at that? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I'm looking forward to catching up with everone at the show in a couple of weeks.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by Tony M

[romekaff]

Wow! Looks stunning!!! Best looking set up I’ve seen on here.