cafe67 Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 On 22/07/2018 at 10:35 PM, Neo said: I’m comparing Marantz sa11s2 vs Yamaha cds1000. Abit at odds as to what to pick as the player to keep Neo Expand Have you yried the yammy cds2100?
Neo Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) No, comparison two secondhand items. One I own Yamaha, Marantz on loan. I spoke to Eastwood Hifi and they conveyed it will be more refined sound compared to cds1000 Edited July 23, 2018 by Neo
jeromelang Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) Yamaha sacd players invert absolute polarity. That include the CD-S3000, CD-S2100, CD-S2000. I would stay away from all these players if I were you. Lean, lifeless sound. Lacking dynamics, when compared to having the absolute polarity inversion corrected. If your amplifier have balanced XLR inputs you might correct absolute polarity by swapping pin2 and pin3 at source end of your balanced XLR cable (This method best avoid subjecting all downstream electronics and cabling to inverted signal flow directionality - which is another huge can of worms). If your amplifier only have single-ended RCA inputs, you can consider custom making a pair of interconnect cables with balanced XLR terminals at the source end, and RCA terminals at the destination end. Swap pin2 and pin3 at the XLR terminals, and short the negative conductor to ground at the RCA terminals. The other problem with Yamaha player is - their balanced XLR outputs are padded down by 6dB. So if you use the XLR-to-RCA cable method, the sound output into your amp will be attenuated by 6dB, becoming halved in level compared to the original single-end RCA outputs of Yamaha players! This is a right royal mess! What the fcuk their engineers were thinking about when they came up with the design of their entire line of players??!??? Edited July 23, 2018 by jeromelang 1
betty boop Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 still love my luxman for sacd replay.... i have always had soft spot for the marantz spinners but I understand the later versions went quite straight down the line in presentation and not sure if that applies to the sa11 s3 as well
cafe67 Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 On 23/07/2018 at 3:43 AM, jeromelang said: Yamaha sacd players invert absolute polarity. That include the CD-S3000, CD-S2100, CD-S2000. I would stay away from all these players if I were you. Lean, lifeless sound. Lacking dynamics, when compared to having the absolute polarity inversion corrected. If your amplifier have balanced XLR inputs you might correct absolute polarity by swapping pin2 and pin3 at source end of your balanced XLR cable (This method best avoid subjecting all downstream electronics and cabling to inverted signal flow directionality - which is another huge can of worms). If your amplifier only have single-ended RCA inputs, you can consider custom making a pair of interconnect cables with balanced XLR terminals at the source end, and RCA terminals at the destination end. Swap pin2 and pin3 at the XLR terminals, and short the negative conductor to ground at the RCA terminals. The other problem with Yamaha player is - their balanced XLR outputs are padded down by 6dB. So if you use the XLR-to-RCA cable method, the sound output into your amp will be attenuated by 6dB, becoming halved in level compared to the original single-end RCA outputs of Yamaha players! This is a right royal mess! What the fcuk their engineers were thinking about when they came up with the design of their entire line of players??!??? Expand Ummm I've tried my cds2100 via xlr to w4s STP-Se preamp, rowland continuum s2 integrated and current Yamaha cds3000 integrated and it's never sounded lean, lifeless and lacking in dynamics. Pretty sure they wire xlr per euro standard which is different to American ? 2
Raffinator Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 On 22/07/2018 at 10:35 PM, Neo said: I’m comparing Marantz sa11s2 vs Yamaha cds1000. Abit at odds as to what to pick as the player to keep NeoI picked up a SA11S2 from the second hand section of Len Wallis about (I think) 9 months ago. I’ve been quite happy with it and one of my better finds. 1
Neo Posted July 23, 2018 Posted July 23, 2018 On 23/07/2018 at 2:05 PM, Raffinator said: I picked up a SA11S2 from the second hand section of Len Wallis about (I think) 9 months ago. I’ve been quite happy with it and one of my better finds. Expand Cool your message bank is full as I would like to send you a private message Neo
jeromelang Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) On 23/07/2018 at 1:41 PM, cafe67 said: Ummm I've tried my cds2100 via xlr to w4s STP-Se preamp, rowland continuum s2 integrated and current Yamaha cds3000 integrated and it's never sounded lean, lifeless and lacking in dynamics. Pretty sure they wire xlr per euro standard which is different to American ? Expand I would have thought this is something that is intuitive, that needn't even need to be said, but, since we are dealing with people lacking common sense, and that each time someone wants to comment on any topic he/she should at least tried it out. Well here it goes: - If one hadn't corrected for the absolute polarity inversion, then the listener won't know what he/she had been missing. I'm going to post 3 screen grabs now.... CD-S2000 test measurement 2nd photo is impulse response. Hard to see, but measurement shows inverted absolute polarity CD-S2100 CD-S3000 All 3 players were measured by one of your Australia HiFi magazines and all 3 players showed inverted absolute polarity inversion. It is not easy for an inexperienced listener to know what to listen for when absolute polarity is inverted somewhere in the audio signal chain. But that doesn't mean ignoring it or leaving things as they are. And in the spirit of this thread: for anybody looking for a good sounding sacd player - you will do better leaving the yammies out of your consideration. Edited July 24, 2018 by jeromelang 1
Neo Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 On 24/07/2018 at 1:03 AM, jeromelang said: I would have thought this is something is intuitive, that needn't even need to be said, but, since we are dealing with people lacking common sense, well here it goes: - If one hadn't correct for the absolute polarity inversion, Expand Common sense is not that common first of all, but more importantly not all of us are as well versed with ins and outs of audio world by the looks of things as you are. Abit of patience on your part while the rest of us catch up. Also thank you for your contribution to this thread, when you take out the impatience part it is very useful Neo 5
betty boop Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 theres a luxman going in the classifieds, if someone looking for a fine cd/sacd player it would be well worth looking at these were some $6k or something so close to half price its a bargain ! I have the model up and been very pleased these are a very swish machine with a sound to match 1
wolster Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 @jeromelang Please stay polite and adhere to our guidelines: Recognise that different people may have a different opinion or philosophy. There are many camps in audio, and many people with different approaches to HiFi than your own. There are objectivists vs. subjectivists, valves vs. transistors, passive pre-amps vs. active pre-amps and so on. Go ahead and discuss these, even debate them to the death, but do not make it personal, stay on topic and respect others' differing opinions. 4
jeromelang Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) I will try to say this as "gently" as possibly to the original thread starter and to anyone else searching for a good sacd player: Consider the Yamaha sacd player carefully. "Gentle" enough? So far i have found the 3 yamaha players to be quite quite reliable. And while the absolute polarity can be best solved by modifying the XLR connecters at the source end, you will find that its resale value could be low as more and more people start to realise the sonic problem the inherent design flaw of these players will pose to their prolong listening pleasure through their system if no modification are done to the interconnect cable to their amps. Edited July 24, 2018 by jeromelang 3
jeromelang Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 Some questions that might arise from my "gentle" reply would be: Why can't users correct for absolute polarity inversion by inverting speaker cable plus/minus terminals at both channels of speakers? What are some specific music recordings that help to check/determine if some components within your system is inverting absolute polarity?
betty boop Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 I don’t get the polarity issue. When got my luxman I just got my xlr so pin 2 and 3 we’re swapped at one end. What’s the big deal ??? i even swapped out pins myself on one other xlr I had. If disassemble depending on cable will likely find don’t even need to resolder and pin slide out and thenre position soending $1000s on a player what’s the big hang up having lead to suit 1
cafe67 Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 Gently .......something thats not raised its head in the various reviews of the various units
kroozzy Posted July 27, 2018 Posted July 27, 2018 On 10/01/2016 at 8:39 PM, Rewind said: I came across the JLTi website yesterday. Can anyone comment on the Oppo 105D with the Level 4 mod on SACD playback? Expand Hey there i wrote this in another post about a month ago "I have had both oppo 105's at the same time, the unmodded and modded, the modded 105 is a 'massive' improvement though mine is level 4.2 with the Analog Clock Booster. I have the oppo 93, still own it, to good to sell for a lousy market rate of $200 - $300 so i have kept it for the kids. I did A - B comparisons between the unmodded oppo 105 & oppo 93 a long time ago and could hardly pick the difference in sound. i probably only leaned towards the 105 in sound because it is a newer model, but blind folded, pffft, good luck picking the better one. I ripped the same CD onto 2 CD's, put them in the 93 and 105, pressed play at the same time and spent a good 1 - 2 hours comparing, eventually got confused which one i was switched to and had absolutely no idea which one was which." The modded JLTI oppo105 is an awesome machine. It can do everything, streaming, Cd's & SACD's and networking and it is a High End ESS Sabre Chipped DAC I connected a Samsung T3 SSD to it and listened to music endlessly. The sound quality is as good as you will ever get a ESS Sabre DAC Chip to sound. Joe at JLTi has souped-up the oppo 105 to get every last 'bit' of sound out of it to make it sound as great as it will ever get. I now have a Bricasti M1 DAC, which is another level up. In saying so, the 105 now sits in idle, but i will never get rid of it because i don't believe there is any that can performed so well under the $10k range being so versatile. If i sold it, i would get $3.5k for it, there is NOTHING for $3.5k that will replace it in sound quality and usability. The difference in sound between a Bricasti M1 and oppo 105 is like: - the oppo 105 is a souped-up 500 - 700 horse power 350 chev, lumpy cam with 8 cylinders firing in synch to create that beastly sound - the Bricasti M1 has the Ferrari or Lambo sound, sounding great at idle and consistently great at high revs, it just purrs and ouzes charm when you hear a load V8 hotty on the road you know it's most likely a ford or holden, it has that sound. Then when you hear a ferrari or lambo, without looking you know its 'not' a ford or holden. then when you hear a stock Holden or Ford V8, you probably just keep walking and don't take much notice, these are all the other SACD players under $10k with the occasional one being factory specced but not just the same as the hotted up beast, that being the oppo 105. A very different analogy with the oppo 105 and the Bricasti M1 both having their own characteristics. Some will prefer one sound over another. Concluding, you can not go wrong with the modded oppo 105. i also open an invitation to those that have a DAC in the $4 - 10K range to do a comparison test between the modded oppo 105, not a competition, just a fair comparison. in particular between the chords, PS audio, amr777, schitt and whatever other DACS
075Congo Posted February 16, 2019 Posted February 16, 2019 I currently own an Esoteric K-05X SACD and compared to other SACD or CD players I have used it is quite sensational. The Disc Drawer operation and overall build quality is really worth the price of entry. Worth noting that the Importers (AV Gallery or Krispy Audio) are excellent in working out a very tempting price of entry re the RRP. Spending more money on a quality power cord is the go too! Most reviewers end their assessment of Esoteric SACD players with they have bought the review sample or won't give it back! Cheers 1
was_a Posted February 17, 2019 Posted February 17, 2019 To the OP: Did you end up a choosing an SACD player? 1
Snoopy8 Posted March 15, 2019 Posted March 15, 2019 Anyone here have experience with the Arcam CDS50 with SACDs?
betty boop Posted April 13, 2019 Posted April 13, 2019 so what is the current state of play on sacd players oppo now dispatched...we seem to have a few more enter the arena. so we have currently ? Esoteric Luxman marantz denon pioneer yamaha any others ? the luxman and esoteric are in a higher price bracket, leaving the others below, and there seem to be a three marantz upper models these days ? SA10s1 KI-Ruby SA14s1 se getting confusing all these marantz units used to be just two models and kinda strange the ruby is nearly price of the s3 and no balanced ? not that balanced is be all and end all, just seems odd at the price I understand the denon and marantz are sort of cousins. certainly some similarity under skin I can see, the marantz going copper on some upper models also wondering where that places the denon 2500ne ? is that some where there about at in-between SA14s1 se and ki-ruby or at or below sa14s1 se ? wiht all the constant deck shuffling and release of new marantz models the denon looks like a good thing https://www.avhub.com.au/product-reviews/hi-fi/denon-dcd-2500ne-sacd-player-review-test-488575
DoggieHowser Posted April 13, 2019 Posted April 13, 2019 Arcam has a new SACD CD player for $1500 that used the ESS 9038 Chipset like the Oppo 205. Does TIDAL streaming too but not Roon.
075Congo Posted April 13, 2019 Posted April 13, 2019 Don't forget OPPO ; even though production is ending the OPPO players were always reviewed as very good machines. Chosen for valve modification as well. Cheers
betty boop Posted April 13, 2019 Posted April 13, 2019 On 13/04/2019 at 10:26 PM, DoggieHowser said: Arcam has a new SACD CD player for $1500 that used the ESS 9038 Chipset like the Oppo 205. Does TIDAL streaming too but not Roon. Expand looks like its the already released cds50 talking about ? https://www.arcam.co.uk/products,HDA,SACD/CD-Player,CDS50.htm that I didnt think was unto fmj level of old ? more a price fighter ? not that $1500 is all that cheap if what goes for I note there is a cheaper arcam fmj27 still knocking around .... but gee you really dont get much under the hood any more with arcams do you ? fmj 27 older and how used to be arcam fmj 37... looks like cds50 is continuing this new trend of "less is more" is it really the fmj 27 player in a cheaper case ? looks a dead ringer under hood !
a.dent Posted April 13, 2019 Posted April 13, 2019 On 13/04/2019 at 10:00 PM, betty boop said: so what is the current state of play on sacd players oppo now dispatched...we seem to have a few more enter the arena. so we have currently ? Esoteric Luxman marantz denon pioneer yamaha any others ? the luxman and esoteric are in a higher price bracket, leaving the others below, and there seem to be a three marantz upper models these days ? SA10s1 KI-Ruby SA14s1 se getting confusing all these marantz units used to be just two models and kinda strange the ruby is nearly price of the s3 and no balanced ? not that balanced is be all and end all, just seems odd at the price I understand the denon and marantz are sort of cousins. certainly some similarity under skin I can see, the marantz going copper on some upper models also wondering where that places the denon 2500ne ? is that some where there about at in-between SA14s1 se and ki-ruby or at or below sa14s1 se ? wiht all the constant deck shuffling and release of new marantz models the denon looks like a good thing https://www.avhub.com.au/product-reviews/hi-fi/denon-dcd-2500ne-sacd-player-review-test-488575 Expand Al, you missed one of the best (and my choice) from the list. Accuphase was one of the early pioneers of SACD player design. Accuphase currently has DP-560 DP-750 DP-950/DC-950 combo This is the (cheapest) DP-560 inside. Not much spare space here. The up-market versions are even more complex. 2 1
betty boop Posted April 13, 2019 Posted April 13, 2019 On 13/04/2019 at 11:36 PM, a.dent said: Al, you missed one of the best (and my choice) from the list. Accuphase was one of the early pioneers of SACD player design. Accuphase currently has DP-560 DP-750 DP-950/DC-950 combo This is the (cheapest) DP-560 inside. Not much spare space here. The up-market versions are even more complex. ~ Expand ah Adam, you are quite right they do indeed make lovely players ! and yes some good honest engineering under the hood
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