Trinity DAC

[HKLM]

...I do not like that it does not have a usb input....

 

Can you please describe your configuration for listening to USB sources. Simple coax input to the DAC flogs anything USB I have tried, both functionally and sonically.

[Jones99]

Antipodes DX unpowered usb port to Gryphon Kalliope via usb .......Kalliope provides usb power supply via Super Caps.......... having listened to some pretty impressive digital  front ends  and owned them ......coax would be the last digital input I would use but each to their own.....

[Slartibartfast]

Can you please describe your configuration for listening to USB sources. Simple coax input to the DAC flogs anything USB I have tried, both functionally and sonically.

 

I agree but would add that AES EBU is better again in most instances, and eliminates the glitches that can sometimes occur when appliances are switched on and off.

 

But you do still need a good transport. My fanless pc does a very good job though, running off fully linear supplies and with a JCAT PCIe USB card. Nothing too special cable wise - (Nordost blue heaven), but with a good dac it's more than a match for most CDP's up to about $4-5k. 

[Jones99]

Can you please describe your configuration for listening to USB sources. Simple coax input to the DAC flogs anything USB I have tried, both functionally and sonically.

Out curiosity what DACs and  input devices have you used for comparison of the various digital formats ?

For me very few manufacturers put the same effort into implementing and minimizing the problems with each input. Fair bit of stigma about CA audio and USB itself  ...asynchronous usb if implemented well and the DAC is designed correctly you can match the best spinners........I would not have sold my Emm Labs DAC2x + TSDX otherwise....

[HKLM]

FIIO D03K

NAD M51

Matrix XSabre

Perfect Wave Mk2

Direcstream

Ayon Sigma

 

Of these DAC's, for the money the FIIO is the best value, and the Ayon is the best overall.

 

The source is always the same, Kaleidescape.

[Slartibartfast]

Yes the 2 Alphas really look very similar with the tops off and nothing stands out but as always proof is in the listening............... be very interested to hear your thoughts of the comparison if it comes to fruition. 

 

 

Just picked up the Alpha (non ref version) today. Unfortunately it's new in box so I'll need to run it for a week before I can definitively rate its performance. 

 

But as it is, it's not too bad. Connectivity is more limited without USB, but I'm using the offramp to evaluate high res files from the server. 

 

Firstly, I'm always bewildered by how different each dac sounds, relative to others, even though the measurements are ultimately similar and distortion so far below audible thresholds. The Alpha 2 doesn't break that rule either, presenting a signature that's unique to itself.  

 

It sounds nothing like the Bricasti and very different to the Auralic Vega dac that I've just removed from the system. Against the Vega, it favours transparency over detail, and the treble is more open and more liquid sweet. There's not a trace of sibilance, even when playing tracks that are inclined in that direction. 

 

Mids and bass are a toss up but the Vega presents detail in a slightly more etched manner. Even new out of the box the Alpha 2 is a better dac in most ways and delivers a more enjoyable experience.

 

Against the Bricasti the Alpha's presentation is more polite and conservative, and the bass less extended and slightly tubby in character. The Bricasti delivers more mid band presence and detail, whereas the Alpha is slightly loudness contoured, with the top treble and mid bass a touch enhanced and the mids slightly recessed, but this may be due to the lack of run-in, so I'll need to reevaluate in 200 hours from now.

 

The Alpha's treble is sweeter than the Bricasti's though, and more forgiving of bad recordings. 

 

Soundstage is also slightly less three dimensional than I get from the Bricasti, but I'm expecting that to change over the course of the coming week. 

 

Stay tuned. 

[Slartibartfast]

Just an update on above.

 

Now that the Alpha DAC has the required 150+ hours on it, the bass has definitely become cleaner and slightly leaner, and the mids have become slightly more forward in the mix.

 

However, the overall distinguishing signature still remains. What is very interesting is that the Bricasti and the Berkely are both using the same AD1955 DAC chip, yet both sound very different. The Berkeley uses proprietary upsampling of RBCD to 176kHz, whilst the Bricasti only employs 8x oversampling. Both use custom reconstruction filters but in the case of the Bricasti there are linear and minimum phase filter options.

 

Unfortunately, the Berkeley DAC's IV and output. op-amps cannot be identified - because they've deliberately scuffed off the part numbers, but the Bricasti's op-amps are visibly AD843's with a total of 4 per channel for I>V and buffering. Bricasti claims a discrete output stage but that's slightly misleading because it appears as though the discrete transistors reside within the op-amp feedback loop. Though bear in mind that the triple layer pcb makes it difficult to trace the schematic.

 

I suspect that the sonic differences are largely due to the op-amps used though. The AD843 isn't an op-amp I'm familiar with from a SQ POV, but specs reveal a very high slew rate (250V/uS) and fast settling time, which are desirable parameters for a I>V stage. 

 

The ALPHA supposedly uses audio grade op-amps but the designers aren't willing to share that info unfortunately. 

 

If I feel inspired down the track I might substitute the Bricasti's buffer stage op-amps with some HQ sockets so that I can experiment with various op-amps, and hopefully add just a touch of sweetness to the treble.

 

My experience with both DAC's leads me to the conclusion that it's probably best to avoid DAC's with op-amps if possible, even though discrete circuits are potentially more complex and expensive to implement. Op-amps do definitely add some colours and flavours, which may or may not be welcome, but inevitably result in a departure from absolute neutrality.  

 

 

 

 

[Slartibartfast]

 

If I feel inspired down the track I might substitute the Bricasti's buffer stage op-amps with some HQ sockets so that I can experiment with various op-amps, and hopefully add just a touch of sweetness to the treble.

 

 

I haven't done this as yet, but I have worked out that it's feasible to install current sinks on the output of each op-amp. A few mA should be sufficient and it will force the op-amps into single ended class A operation.

 

I suspect it will completely solve the problem.  

[Slartibartfast]

....................

Edited March 5, 2016 by Slartibartfast

[Slartibartfast]

I haven't done this as yet, but I have worked out that it's feasible to install current sinks on the output of each op-amp. A few mA should be sufficient and it will force the op-amps into single ended class A operation.

 

I suspect it will completely solve the problem.  

 

 

It took about an hour, but testing and matching the jfet integrated regulator diodes took about the same amount of time. Measured regulation was 99.8%, which is pretty good if I may so so myself, There's a series resistor too which brings the voltage across the CRD into the centre of the most linear region (7 - 10V).

 

The effect of the current sinks is to bias the op-amps into full class A region, and in a quasi single ended mode because the bottom half of the complementary push-pull output is effectively disconnected until signal current exceeds 2mA,  which isn't possible in this design. 

 

While I was at it, I also corrected a small design error that was duplicated in the 3 power supplies. 

 

The modification is invisible because it's underneath the L&R PCB's, but is simple enough to remove if I ever want to sell the dac.

 

So how does it sound now?

 

Subjectively, the M1 really does sound much smoother and sweeter up top, almost to the point of being too smooth at times on some recordings, but on the best recordings it's much more nuanced than it was before. A veil has definitely been lifted.

 

I'll be taking it to a GTG for Bricasti owners (BYO Bricasti) in three weeks, and hopefully will compare it against a Gryphon Kalliope, so I'll report back on the outcome of the shoot-outs. 

[Jones99]

A few trinity DACs for sale tempting me at the moment ..................must resist....

[HKLM]

Come and have a listen to my Ayon DAC....

[Jones99]

Come and have a listen to my Ayon DAC....

Thanks for the offer........which model?? 

[Jones99]

@@HKLM is if it is the Ayon Sigma as mentioned previously it is really not in the same price bracket as Trinity/Kalliope/Vivaldi so comparisons would be very unfair I suspect .........Never been a fan of valves in amps/pre-amps and would expect I would like it  even less in a DAC.....but when I get back to WA might take you up on that offer.

 

Cheers

[HKLM]

I don't have any speakers to demo anything on at the moment, my S3 are broken.

[Jones99]

Tragic....quite a few magico seem to break though...bit hard for me to audition when living overseas also...but will keep an eye/ear out for it on my travels to see if it compares favourably to Trinity/Kalliope/Vivaldi etc

[AccuTidal]

I don't have any speakers to demo anything on at the moment, my S3 are broken.

Oh No..!

What has happened, Brodric?

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[TP1]

Tragic....quite a few magico seem to break though...bit hard for me to audition when living overseas also...but will keep an eye/ear out for it on my travels to see if it compares favourably to Trinity/Kalliope/Vivaldi etc

it sounds like you are looking for reinforcements for your match up against the DC-37. Bring em down!

[Jones99]

@@Tasso you know me by now always curious about other products which are touted as supposedly the best money can buy...  Keep in mind I have heard the DC-37 on quite a few occasions.It is a superb DAC for the money. I am also very aware how tainted you guys are towards the Gold so I know I will be going in with a  5 goal deficit with home ground advantage to the DC37.......perhaps it is best to hold the GTG at your place to try and give the DC37 the edge playing with all Accuphase gear otherwise it could well be a blood bath

[HKLM]

Oh No..!

What has happened, Brodric?

 

 

Mid-driver failed in one speaker, cause unknown.

[TP1]

@@Tasso you know me by now always curious about other products which are touted as supposedly the best money can buy...  Keep in mind I have heard the DC-37 on quite a few occasions.It is a superb DAC for the money. I am also very aware how tainted you guys are towards the Gold so I know I will be going in with a  5 goal deficit with home ground advantage to the DC37.......perhaps it is best to hold the GTG at your place to try and give the DC37 the edge playing with all Accuphase gear otherwise it could well be a blood bath

 

We all have our biases - mine just happens to be for the best sounding  gear and its not restricted to a certain region in Europe!      Seriously though, there are so many  "great new dacs" popping up  and getting their 15 minutes of fame.  Many can't do DSD and make predictable excuses for their deficiency but like so many flashes in the pan of yester year, the real test will come over time. Why am i so confident about Accuphase? They  are the worlds longest running true high end company and  and have not shied away from taking on the most difficult technical challenges.  Since their first CD player/ DAC in 1986 , they have consistently produced  the best or one of the best digital players in the world.    New fly by night contenders  regularly come on to the scene and they are coming thick and fast  these days.  The formula  for whipping up excitement is the same,    get a good online review- (lets face it, there are hardly too many bad ones ) and communicate with people through forums where cult followings  are born.  If you are from Europe - charge exorbitant prices, anything less is seen as undesirable.  Trinity's explanation of DSD issues is ok if you are a kindergarten student and it stays clear of discussing real tech like Accuphase's patented technology for eliminating DSD noise.  But it seems that the best tech is too much for a one man band . So too is the ability to design a decent PSU. Trinity have opted for SMPS- its a lazy way of getting speed  from a PSU , not too mention a cheap assed way as well.

 

Perhaps we should discuss this further off-line - i dont mean to offend anyone who has bought these products ;.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Tasso

[TP1]

if you are after the very best sound from PCM1704 chips ( used by Trinity)  look no further than @@Chanh design. - no shortcuts there!

 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Tasso

[Jones99]

We all have our biases - mine just happens to be for the best sounding  gear and its not restricted to a certain region in Europe!      Seriously though, there are so many  "great new dacs" popping up  and getting their 15 minutes of fame.  Many can't do DSD and make predictable excuses for their deficiency but like so many flashes in the pan of yester year, the real test will come over time. Why am i so confident about Accuphase? They  are the worlds longest running true high end company and  and have not shied away from taking on the most difficult technical challenges.  Since their first CD player/ DAC in 1986 , they have consistently produced  the best or one of the best digital players in the world.    New fly by night contenders  regularly come on to the scene and they are coming thick and fast  these days.  The formula  for whipping up excitement is the same,    get a good online review- (lets face it, there are hardly too many bad ones ) and communicate with people through forums where cult followings  are born.  If you are from Europe - charge exorbitant prices, anything less is seen as undesirable.  Trinity's explanation of DSD issues is ok if you are a kindergarten student and it stays clear of discussing real tech like Accuphase's patented technology for eliminating DSD noise.  But it seems that the best tech is too much for a one man band . So too is the ability to design a decent PSU. Trinity have opted for SMPS- its a lazy way of getting speed  from a PSU , not too mention a cheap assed way as well.

 

Perhaps we should discuss this further off-line - i dont mean to offend anyone who has bought these products ;.

Maybe we should  not to offend the good folks who own them ....definitely empty under the hood nothing to justify 55k usd price tag .....but hey I still want to listen to it. Never never know if you don't listen for yourself.though ....so I won't judge until then ......the more I research though the less Trinity interests me..

Tasso I am always open to other gear around the world actually owned a few Japanese models........always looking and listening ....really like Accuphase and their philosophy but don't feel the absolute love for the Gold ..........maybe your new gear may change my mind.

The new Soulution gear runs SMPS and having heard it is quite impressive.....exceptions to every rule

[Jones99]

if you are after the very best sound from PCM1704 chips ( used by Trinity)  look no further than @@Chanh design. - no shortcuts there!

 

Awesome!!!!

[AccuTidal]

Awesome!!!!

Thanks Jones!

Here my Wishlist for you to bring home along with your Kalliope!

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