MQA Users & Discussion Thread

[Guest Sime]

This is the file info from my BS app while playing that track, this is the track that my DAC is reading as 88.2

So is this information telling me that if my DAC was indeed MQA capable, this file should be registering 352khz?

Edited June 2, 2016 by Sime

[Guest Sime]

But from John's article, he said its up to Bluesound users to decide as to if MQA through a Nodes DAC will be better than a normal file through a high end DAC the old way, and after my test between my DAC and the nodes using The remastered Brothers in arms album, the nodes DAC is absolutely rubbish. So......

[gcgreg]

So is this information telling me that if my DAC was indeed MQA capable, this file should be registering 352khz?

Yes, IF your DAC was MQA AND 352khz capable, and being fed the MQA file.

[gcgreg]

But from John's article, he said its up to Bluesound users to decide as to if MQA through a Nodes DAC will be better than a normal file through a high end DAC the old way, and after my test between my DAC and the nodes using The remastered Brothers in arms album, the nodes DAC is absolutely rubbish. So......

What output are you using from the node to the DAC?

[Guest Sime]

@@gcgreg using coax and my DAC is 384khz capable over coax.

[davewantsmoore]

Another quote from the Bluesound forum basically saying the Node is passing a decoded MQA to an external DAC in HiRez?

What's going on here ?

 

Most of the sources on the 2L page are DXD.   ie.   352.8khz

 

Assuming these are the files you were using, then for "some" reason, the Bluesound is choosing to render them at 88.2khz.    Why that is, we would need Bluesound to comment.

 

 

However, the first thing everyone needs to understand is the fact that it is being rendered at 88.2khz shouldn't be used to generalise about the sound quality.    If you're thinking to yourself, gee I wish it were rendering at a higher rate, then for the most part you should banish that thinking.    There ARE some general inherent issues with moving audio between rates (meaning it's desirable to leave audio in it's original rate) .....  but MQA gets around those issues  (which I can explain, but it's another technico post)

[powerav]

You can start to see why Schitt don't want a bar of MQA.

[davewantsmoore]

No device currently sends decoded MQA to an external DAC.

 

Right.    I should have caught that possibility too.   Whoops   :/

 

Assuming this is correct... then Bluesound is just doing 2x oversampling on the audio (PCM 24/44.1) before sending it out then?

 

EDIT: seems not ?!?!

Edited June 2, 2016 by davewantsmoore

[davewantsmoore]

You can start to see why Schitt don't want a bar of MQA.

 

People who even know what a sample rate and bit depth are constitute two teths of nothing in the overall market  

[Guest Sime]

Most of the sources on the 2L page are DXD.   ie.   352.8khz

 

Assuming these are the files you were using, then for "some" reason, the Bluesound is choosing to render them at 88.2khz.    Why that is, we would need Bluesound to comment.

 

 

However, the first thing everyone needs to understand is the fact that it is being rendered at 88.2khz shouldn't be used to generalise about the sound quality.    If you're thinking to yourself, gee I wish it were rendering at a higher rate, then for the most part you should banish that thinking.    There ARE some general inherent issues with moving audio between rates (meaning it's desirable to leave audio in it's original rate) .....  but MQA gets around those issues  (which I can explain, but it's another technico post)

''

Yes it's a track from that 2L page.

[Guest Sime]

I guess my main source of confusion is the 88.2 rate I'm getting and why.

[davewantsmoore]

I do hope that's a simplification, given that a digital master may have tracks mixed in from multiple ADCs

 

MQA have provided info about what happens there....   but essentially the process does work better if every bit of hardware used to make every individual track (ie. before they're mixed together) is "MQA enabled".

.

[gcgreg]

I guess my main source of confusion is the 88.2 rate I'm getting and why.

Yes that is what I'm trying to understand too, I would've thought 176 due to Node's capability at least. As Dave said, a question for Bluesound really.

[Guest Sime]

I nearly bought John Darko's Brooklyn DAC he was selling which is MQA, but the fact that I ain't heard one and the question as to if that DAC is better than what I own stopped me from selling mine and buying his.

[davewantsmoore]

The MQA decoder requires a profile for the DAC to be used. MQA can't know which DAC is attached to your Bluesound, so cannot adapt for it (even assuming the relevant filters are available!). So it passes the MQA file untouched.

 

Can you point to where MQA have said this?   I can't find it.

 

It might be true for the Bluesound product mentioned for whatever reason (or maybe all products so far) .... but in general ??? ....   I can see where they say, that if they don't know about the DAC then there are some interesting things the decoder can't optimise.

 

 

 

.... one thing I did just notice though which is new.  Back to the discussion earlier about bitrates...   MQA have said that "even these great 2L recordings" very rarely go past the 16bit spectral level ..... there is simply just not more than 16bits of information in the original recording.

Edited June 2, 2016 by davewantsmoore

[davewantsmoore]

As Dave said, a question for Bluesound really.

 

There are really only two sane possibilities for how the 44.1khz file is ending up as 88.2khz

• The file is being treated as PCM, and is being oversampled 2x
• The file is being decoded as MQA, and the decoder is rendering it out at 88.2  (instead of a higher multiple, ie.  176.4, or 352.8)

The real tell, will be is the MQA light on?

 

 

EDIT:  Sorry missed a couple of posts, and I see the MQA light is ON  (if I am reading the screen shot right)

Edited June 2, 2016 by davewantsmoore

[powerav]

John Darko's story explained it well, at least I'm not confused now. You don't need a MQA Dac. 

[Guest Sime]

Yes, the MQA light is on, but with a blue dot next to it. I have to scour that forum again because I briefly read something in relation to those colored dots, brb........@@davewantsmoore

[Guest Sime]

John Darko's story explained it well, at least I'm not confused now. You don't need a MQA Dac.

Yes, but you don't get MQA.....

[powerav]

Yes, but you don't get MQA.....

From my understanding it is just packed in a FLAC container like video formats x264 and x265 are in an MKV container, 265 is higher resolution but in a reduced file size. (you maybe right, I maybe crazy.....)

[Guest Sime]

In the BluOS app, the MQA indicator glows green or blue to indicate that the Player is decoding and playing an MQA stream or file, and denotes provenance to ensure that the sound is identical to that of the source material. It glows blue to indicate it is playing an MQA Studio file, which has either been approved in the studio by the artist/producer or has been verified by the copyright owner

And a question asked by another member to Bluesound

1. It seems that the Node's actually decodes the MQA stream and outputs the "higher" res contents over the digital outputs?

That is not what TonyW assured us earlier?

2. It seems that the digital output is limited to 96khz/24bit which is what you could expect ove toslink. This means hat MQA material in original 24/96 is output in the very same format. But most of 2L's sample material is natively in DXD, 24/352.8khz, and this material gets downsampled on its way to the digital output to 1/4 of its original sample rate, 88.2khz.

I realise limitations on both optical and electrocal SPDIF must be met, but does this downsampling occur before or after the internal DAC gets a hold of the stream? (In other words, what resolution does the internal DAC in the Node2 work with when playing an MQA file with original sample rate of 352.8 Khz?)

3. And finally, the little MQA icon has a blue dot which i understand represents "MQA Studio quality".

There was also a green dot mentioned, but i was unable to either see it yet or understand its meaning.

Can we get an explanation please? :?

Regards /Mike

[Hilton]

Too hard too proprietary, and that's coming from someone that actually understands what MQA is and how it works.

 

It's a niche (no not nice... niche) format designed to fleece Audiophiles.  If you can hear a difference great.. but that doesn't mean it's better.  

 

Every system sounds different, so unless you're going to recreate the room, monitor speakers, AMPS and the complete audio chain from a studio in your home you can forget about "matching the sound of the studio masters"  

It's all bull.  You're better off spending the money on better components or room treatment than changing formats.  At the end of the day, it's about what sounds good to you in your room with your system, it's not about trying to recreate the studio.

[Guest Eggcup The Daft]

The light is on simply because the Bluesound's internal DAC would output that if you had it plugged in.. The 2Qute isn't an MQA equipped DAC so isn't doing anything MQA.

 

Possibly the Bluesound is upsampling its output? You are getting the same result as the other user you quoted. I'd be surprised if MQA allowed that, though.

 

Do you have the 2Qute set to upsample? What happens if you send a non-MQA 44.1/24 (if you have such a thing) or CD standard audio to it?

[davewantsmoore]

From my understanding it is just packed in a FLAC container like video formats x264 and x265 are in an MKV container, 265 is higher resolution but in a reduced file size. (you maybe right, I maybe crazy.....)

 

The MQA information is encoded into the actual audio (it's in the noise).   So you can convert a MQA encoded FLAC file into other lossless formats, and it's still MQA  (becuase the MQA data is buried in the actual audio, not in the "file format")

[Guest Sime]

You can't set the 2qute to do anything manually, it plays what it gets. @@Eggcup The Daft

It has accurately displayed and played perfectly every sample rate it's been given.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Sime